and steve simon served as senior director for middle eastern and north african affairs on the nationaluncil staff during the obama administration. he's now professor of the practice of international relations at colby college. gentlemen, welcome to you both. secretary panetta, i'd like to begin with you. how big a change in u.s. policy is this latest move? >> well, i think this is a serious foreign policy blunder that is going to undermine united states leadership and further weaken our role in the world. i mean, we're putting a knife in the back of the kurds who basically fought alongside of us in trying to destroy the i.s.i.s. caliphate. in basically leaving the kurds vulnerable, we've also opened up the possibility that syria will go into the hands of russia, iran and that i.s.i.s. will further strengthen itself. so, from every aspect, i consider this to be a very serious blunder on the part of the president. >> nawaz: steve simon, you have long argued this was a long time coming, that the alliance with the syrians -- the kurdish, rather, forces a very short shelf life, this was ine