syrett is the founder and ceo of pantegrion capital focused on seed and early stage investments and steve strauss is the senior columnist at "usa today" small business and he is the founder and ceo of the self-employed dotcom. so good to see both of you guys. all right let's go to the first question. it came in an e-mail and it says i am in the second trimester of my business. i need financing for marketing and advertising. at this stage which would be best, crowd funding, a microloan or a private bank loan. where do you think they should start? >> i think if you have a sense of a direct relationship with your marketing spend and the revenues it generates then loans could be a really good thing, because you have some confidence that you could easily pay those loans back and you don't have to give up equity. however, if you don't have that sense of that causal relationship, then crowd funding could probably be a better outlet for you. because, the campaign itself is really an exercise in marketing and advertising. the one caveat i would say to that is that it takes a hell of a lot of work and if y