so ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming steven brill and zeke emanuel. [applause] >> thank you. the introduction made it sound like i had the open heart surgery to complete my book. i'll go pretty far but not that far. >> you don't believe in self-experimentation? >> no. >> so, it's a great pleasure to interview you. i think we spoke once in the process of your writing the book for about an hour if i recall correctly. >> no, we spoke a lot more than that. >> host: really. >> guest: yes. >> host: alzheimer's early. i want -- >> guest: i can call it up on my calendar if you want. to. >> host: i want to ask you why you wrote the book, and in particular a lot large part of the book is about the sort of fighting over the passage of the aca, the reclaiming of the -- the fixing of the web site and i guess the question i have is, did all that matter? we now have the law and doesn't -- lots of people say don't look at the sausage of making bills. what did we really learn from the sausagemaking. >> guest: i think at the core we learned why the sausage is the way i

system had to be supplanted by -- replaced by something else and i don't know how many of you read steven brills' knew new book. i think that he identifies the kaiser model as being the way out of the mess, where physicians and healthcare systems issue their own insurance product. they collect the premiums and they have the natural innocenttive to limit costs. of course you have to put in various protections into place so they don't unnecessarily limit spending, but i think the kaiser model is a very reasonable one. i grew up in southern california, in the '70s and '80s and we went to kaiser and we got perfectly good health care. some people advocate a single payer system. i don't see that happening in this country. what works in -- abroad doesn't -- won't work in the united states. i don't think. i remember one of my professors, who is teaching healthcare economics, was talking about the national health service in england and then someone asked him, why don't we just do that here. he is like, america is too different. in england they live in a rainy climate, they drink warm beer, they learn to