and there's a brilliant essay by steven dunn. and he said that you can write political poetry, but unless you don't know what the ending is, it's not going to work. the same thing. there has to be an element of surprise that if you sit down and you know where you're going and what you want to say, then it's going to come out. it is beautiful tying into that. >> i agree to that. we all -- all writers have the people saying that makes such a great story. so sometimes one is attempted to write that great story but you know the ending of that story. and it actually doesn't make such a great story and you told the story and you how how this is going to end. you made the joke so to have this basic idea of where i'm going without knowing how it end up being surprised is the most wonderful feeling and the most wonderful feeling for me when i'm writing and i get to the point where i realize i don't have to go any further. >> we're going to stop quickly and take a break and we're going to show your books on the screen as we go to the break