steven hayward is a visiting scholar in conservative thought and policy at the university of coloradolder. and historian beverly gage of yale university joins us once again. she studies political movements in u.s. history. well, eric liu, i want to start with you with something you said to our producer in thinking about these issues. you said people have stopped drawing any kind of line between pol dispiks government. now what does that mean, and what kind of line should there be? >> i think the reality is that, that line is always hard to draw, but there is a difference between politicking and trying to appeal to one's base in electoral terms, on the one hand, and on the other hand, actually just governing, running the operations of government, and what we saw over the last two weeks was a very dangerous blurring of that line, where the, for political purposes, we were willing, as a country to, go almost to the brink of putting our full faith and credit on the line, and stopping the functioning of government all together. and i think that's the tricky spot here is that of course ther