stewart baker. stewart baker: yeah, very briefly. i think that example shows that there are times when we simply will not leave the decision to the companies. it's -- and if you believe that, if you thought there was a phone that had data about the importation of a nuclear device into the united states, no one would be saying, oh, well, it's apple choice about whether they're going to use their backdoor to provide access. we would say this is a choice that ought to be made by society as a whole through our elected representatives. i -- and if you believe that, then i think the answer to the question is, yes, there are times when companies should be required to help law enforcement. john yoo: also, we would help american companies would willingly try to help in such a situation, shouldn't need the compulsion of the law. what worries us, i think, is this growing atmosphere that it's okay for tech companies to say no, we're not going to help the government even in a scale of a threat as high as the one you're proposing, mr. chief justic

stewart baker. stewart baker: yeah, very briefly. i think that example shows that there are times when we simply will not leave the decision to the companies. it's -- and if you believe that, if you thought there was a phone that had data about the importation of a nuclear device into the united states, no one would be saying, oh, well, it's apple choice about whether they're going to use their backdoor to provide access. we would say this is a choice that ought to be made by society as a whole through our elected representatives. i -- and if you believe that, then i think the answer to the question is, yes, there are times when companies should be required to help law enforcement. john yoo: also, we would help american companies would willingly try to help in such a situation, shouldn't need the compulsion of the law. what worries us, i think, is this growing atmosphere that it's okay for tech companies to say no, we're not going to help the government even in a scale of a threat as high as the one you're proposing, mr. chief justic

baker,g first, stewart stewart? baker, former assistant director for policy at homeland security. >> for those of you who come back, i should introduce you to a concept i learned about a conference yesterday, which is the israeli question -- which is a speech followed by the words don't you agree? [laughter] stewart baker i was thinking : about this issue and researching it, and i came across a case with a woman named brittany mills who was -- who answered her door one day and was shot dead at point blank range. there are no -- the police know she knew the person she opened the door for. they know nothing else. they do know she had an iphone, that she kept a diary on it. her mother says that she was careful to keep those records. apple is not prepared to provide any assistance in finding out what's on that phone. i -- that can't be right. tim cook has given many speeches about how companies have values because people have values and apple has values. and they care about the environment, and they work hard -- even sac