by stonewalling it so long and successfully stonewalling it so long he is going to have the worst possible time for himself where all of these things are going to be coming to the light of day just as the american people focus on an election year. >> leah? >> yeah. so i completely agree with this. i think i'd also point out it shows the kind of resiliency around our american democratic institutions. so even as we have these larger questions about stonewalling, about the way donald trump has had a complete disregard for law that again and again, the courts and the institutions surrounding the courts have shown a kind of resiliency around answering this question. on top of that, i think two -- one of the things we talked about early in this conversation, donald trump does have a lot to hide. that we wouldn't be having these questions if the documents, the court, the institutions didn't keep revealing misdoings, misdeeds, and at the very least unethical behaviors. so now what we're beginning to see too as these things come down the pipeline, it is painting a picture that is deeply damn fogger

as well as the building where stonewall jackson died. chris has authored or co-authored a dozen books on the civil war and his articles have appeared in all the major civil war magazines. he serves on the board of directors for the virginia battlefield trust as a national advisor on the board for the civil war chaplains museum in lynchburg, virginia. please help me to welcome him. [applause] dr. mackowski: you are going to see something rare, a chris mackowski powerpoint presentation. i know. the reason i am doing it is so i have an excuse to show edward's map. make me a map.com, the battle of mine run has been understudied. in fact, nothing happened so i will make up a bunch of stuff. [laughter] when edward made this map that doubled the amount of cartography done on this battle. for a long time, the only thing available was in the official atlas of the armies. you can see sketchy bits. this is why i don't do powerpoint. you can see the federal lines and confederate lines. in the margin, i have written, echoes of fredericksburg. years a

we begin with new reporting on white house efforts to stonewall the impeachment inquiry. it comes as we nfr what's expected to be the final week of closed door testimony before open hearings begin. according to "the washington post" the head of the office of management and budget russell and two of his subordinants. "the post" citing two white house official reports that he's sought to build a relationship with the president for some time and he's standing firm against the impeachment inquiry is a way to bolster president trump "the times" reports questioning the loyalty of acting chief of staff mick mulvaney's aids. the news comes after several current former and current white house officials defy previous efforts to stonewall and the inquiry and testify anyway telling the president froze military aid to ukraine. >> meanwhile "the washington post" is also reporting that a growing number of senate republicans are ready to acknowledge that the president used military aid as leverage to pressure ukraine to investigate former vice president joe biden and his family. accordin

counsel don mcgahn must testify before congress delivering a blow to president trump's efforts to stonewallsion striking down the trump administration's previous claims that officials are immune from complying with house subpoenas in a scathing 118 page decision us district judge qatar g brown jackson writing stated simply presidents are not kings, adding absolute immunity from compelled congressional process simply does not exist. >>we've been defined in our attempts to have a proper oversight of the constitution while says because of this administration's stonewalling and so it's good. the judge agreed with us. it's the law its oversight as american as apple pie. >>the white house says the justice department will appeal the decision adding they are confident that the important constitutional principle advanced by the administration, we'll be vindicated. in may the white house blocked mcgahn from complying with the house judiciary subpoena after the mueller report revealed he witnessed several instances of trump attempting to interfere with the russia investigation. now mcgahn's lawyer say

they've stonewalled us. we're going to proceed on a separate track. we're going to make a count of obstruction. if they continue to stonewall, we want all the other peemt testi people testify. don't forget, brooke, you do have the president's testimony in the form of the summary of his phone call with the president of ukraine, in which he said i'd like to you do me a favor, though, and then started mentioning the bidens and crowdstrike. we do have that literally and the senate can of course use it. >> in the midst of all this, republican senator lindsey graham asked the state department for documents involving the bidens and don lemon, our friend don, sat down with former vice president biden, joe biden, and asked about that. so listen to this. >> let me ask you. because lindsey graham now, who you've worked with, who was a friend. i know this, video of him saying, oh, you are the nicest person he's ever metened the greatest man and now asking the state department for documents for you and your son. what do you say to lindsey graham and folks like him

out of the state department at a time when congress could not do so congress is being completely stonewalled so you've got about 100 pages here that this organization was able to get ahold of that congress was not able to get hold of and this will undoubtedly be used in the impeachment inquiry to show that the trumpet ministration was using official channels in order to help the president's private attorney persuade ukraine to investigate the president's political rival. john hendren reporting live from washington john many thanks well scott lucas is professor of international politics at the university of birmingham he says the giuliani schools to pump a 0 were made in the backdrop of an alleged plan to discredit joe biden his son hunter and marie event of its. but the phone calls are not the most important things in the documents the phone calls on the 26th in the 29th of march between pompei on giordani each was 4 minutes we don't know what was in the calls we just know they took place but what we do know from the other documents is that someone probably joy yannis camp was giving the sta

it suggests to me, just more stonewalling. there's no legal basis to refuse to show up to answer questions, no privilege to protect anybody from revealing information about criminal activity or abuse of power. the fact that we have a number of people not showing up, a number of people defying subpoenas which are lawful orders is a pattern that's quite disturbing. >> shawn, you served in intelligence agencies for nam of years here. the explicit strategy of this president and his allies to out the whistleblower and question the whistleblower's, you know, fairness in effect here. you know the way this whistleblower law is written so that folks inside the intelligence community like this one can come forward but with an assumption of protection of their identity. how chilling would it be for people who see wrongdoing see a whistleblower like this outed and face public consequences? >> well, jim, you know it's not even a question of how chilling it would be, it's a question of how chilling it already has been. look, you know, there

this transcript released today, erin, also comes when four white house officials stonewalled and did not show up for their testimony despite subpoenas. that is a theme you'll see played out this week because we do expect two omb officials, two top officials, intricately involved in holding up the ukraine aid, to not show up for their testimony tomorrow, either. of course, for the president, for the white house, this is welcomed because previously there has been damning testimony from former and current administration officials so you're now seeing white house officials stonewalling is something as part of the white house strategy to not cooperate. the big sticking point they keep pointing to is administration officials can't be in during this testimony. now, all of this is happening, erin, as the president appears to be changing his tune on quid pro quo saying it is no big deal if that did happen. we'll have to wait to see what he says during the rally in kentucky. >> thank you very much. pam, out front now democratic congressman denny hack who sits on the house intelligence committe

and now the new stonewalling is sort of mulvaney and others showing that the loyal lieutenants they canit solid for the boss and keep them from testifying. >> harry, let me jump in. trump is smearing yovanovitch as we speak. >> i'm sure she's a very fine woman. i just don't know much about her. you have to take a look at the transcript because the president of ukraine was not favorably inclined. >> she said she had concerns about rudy giuliani. -- [ inaudible question ] >> but you did your own -- >> i think that the whistle-blower gave a lot of false information, and you have to see who the whistle-blower is. once i release the transcript, which was almost immediately, the whistle-blower's report was very wrong because, as you know, the whistle-blower covered mostly my transcript, my call, my call with the president of ukraine. so once i release that call, i released a very detailed version of that call. all of a sudden the whistle-blower's report was incorrect, and the whistle-blower seems to have disappeared. and i also wonder what happened to the second whistle-blower and what happen

the story of fredericksburg and the union army trying to throw itself against the sunken road at stonewall. still a strong memory in the minds as they see the confederate works. nobody is excited about what is going to happen next. making things even worse, at one spot along the road, the road passes the stream, there is a rose mill. confederates dam up the stream and it backs up a huge flooded plane. a red sea.says, streamels dammed the and we damned it too. they talked about seeing miles of cleared high ground facing them. every artillery piece pointed right at them. oh boy. so meade has got to figure out what to do next. he comes to an interlude that has nothing to do with leverage. should i assault that? i don't think so. but he calls to his corps commanders and asks them, are there favorable conditions for an assault anywhere on the line? nobody has anything positive to , until governor warren comes to him. the wunderkind of the army. rather than assaulting straight across, why don't i take a portion of the army, we will backtrack, and cut across country and swing back over here towar

the president has stonewalled. he has not provided any documents. he's not provided any witnesses andvi in fact the brave people o have come forward like ambassador yovanovitch, she did so in defiance of a directive from the state department and the president. she responded to a lawful subpoena. so it's only the brave folks serving in the state department and intelligence agencies that are coming forward. so the president has all the information that he claims would be exicculpatory, supposedly, b doesn't present it. but he really should be providing the information that presidents like nixon and clinton did.e >> we should note the state department has all sorts odocuments and notes they're not relinquishing, which i think everyone would be interested in seeing. joining me two people who have been paying close attention to the state department. erin, let me start with you. it is remarkable. in some ways we learn lots of new bits of granular information every day and yet the big picture remains unchanged from the time we got the phone call, which is

investigators -- plan to stonewall investigators. clear whether former national security adviser john bolton will appear. and then there's this new development. lawyers for the whistle-blower who triggered this whole impeachment inquiry say their client is willing to answer written questions from republicans, but that may not satisfy gop lawmakers who want to hear from him in person. and the president and his allies also demand the whistle-blower's identity be revealed. but let's begin with harry entin with these new battleground poll numbers. what do you see, harry? >> i think it's very interesting what we see. let's give you a reminder and

of their authority and power by making clear it is not acceptable for a president to completely stonewall congress. host: what is your understanding of the process in terms of will the intelligence committee just create a report and not recommend articles of impeachment? leave that up to the judiciary committee? guest: that is my understanding. the resolution provides for one more open hearing by the intelligence committee to discuss some of the material they have uncovered doing these depositions over the past couple of weeks and other investigative work. there are other committees who are doing investigative work which may air on potential articles. six committees have been working on the inquiry in total. for,e resolution provides those committees will transfer material they have collected to the judiciary committee which then will be responsible for determining what articles of impeachment might look like. host: as far as we know at this point, those committees, they focus their investigation, still the ukraine, the phone call and issues around ukraine aid? guest: that's been the prim

when we look back at this period, a precedent sent, american presidents in stonewall their way out of these types of mess messes. because of the nature of our court system and appeals process these things can be dragged out so long whichever party wants to impeach a president can throw up their hands and say we can't get everybody in here to testify we need to. that is what we're at risk of seeing at the end of all this. >> running gown the clock. sure. i spoke with a man earlier who kwo disagree. staff counsel to the iran/contra committee that investigated president ronald raken arguing john bolton should testify before democrat told an impeachment vote. bolton described ukraine pressure campaign, to some dreegs, also called it a drug deal. here's my conversation. >> talk john bolton and i know you say this is the democrats big chance to bring him in, that they should subpoena him immediately. make your case. >> absolutely they should. he is "the" decisive most important witness who can appear before the committee. he held the rank of national security adviser. his lawyer has said he

interesting, it is a new legal reasoning for the stonewalling we've been seeing. >> reporter: yeah, that's right. good morning. this is effectively an attempt by the kedepartment of just cits tis to limit their ability to question officials within the vaiks about president trump's dealings with ukraine. the legal reasoning in this five page memo hasn't really been tested in court before, but it is important to point out that federal courts historically generally speaking have not allowed executive privilege or this version of to get in the way of a criminal investigation. this is almost certainly something that democrats will wind up challenging in court. so prepare for that legal fight. and of course all of this is happening against the backdrop of president trump expanding his attacks on this whistleblower. just yesterday before departing for a rally in kentucky, the president again reiterated his attacks on the whistleblower suggesting that this person's account of his call with president zelensky was a fabrication and that this person was just out to get the president. of course we kno

transition to a more public phase, as we are requesting information and documents, if you continue to stonewall, you are setting yourself up for denial of rights that you are going to want to be in -- you are going to want. go to the collars. a republican line is first. he'll is in hazelwood. -- bill is in hazelwood. theer: i am calling from democratically gerrymandered first congressional district. public, i'mof the wondering, what are the procedures and would access -- what access what i have to attending the hearing is a member of the public? guest: just like most other committee hearings, these will be public hearings in person and on television. recommend you show up early. these will be well attended by the public and everyone within the bubble. this is not a common thing. if you are flying in, get your ticket now. host: our earlier guest from the hill reported, they will have these in the ways and means, a bigger room to accommodate a larger audience. we hope you get in. michael in florida, democrat line. go ahead. michael, from florida. i am a democrat. need to american people evaluate

so for trump the strategy is stonewalling and saying i did nothing wrong seems to be working. there's no sign that they're changing that. >> we saw a parade, if you will, here, david jolly, of some 12 fact witnesses. we have seen over 35 hours of testimony almost. the question that i started with at the top of the show is, if the democrats are still potentially seeing more documents come out and these 100 pages that we have here and more as natasha was saying about coming monday, why the rush, then, those who are critical of the democrats, why not wait longer? >> there's an argument that you could get even more information, particularly if the white house would cooperate and allmulvaneyd bolton to testify. recall, richard, as joyce said, they have a totality of the evidence, a firm case of impeachable behavior. this entire fact pattern started with the president's admission around september 22 or 23. he said why would i give money to a corrupt nation. when pressed on it he said, of course i wanted to make sure that our people, mainly the bidens, weren't contribute to go corrup

that's how an impeachment version is describing stonewalling witnesses refusing to testify and how will trump's taxing blow, the president loses a legal appeal to keep his tax returns secret out of the hands of

a crack inside the impeachment stonewall. vice president pence who was central to the ukraine policy honors a subpoena and testifies on capitol hill this hour. >>> plus a one-time rebuke from his friend in france. he said the nato alliance risks, quote, brain death because the united states shows signs of turning its back on europe. >>> bernie sanders looks to make a move. a new immigration plan out today and a clear strategy on headlight care. keep the peace with elizabeth warren by bernie sanders. >> isn't the only winner of that joe biden? >> what joe has got to tell the american people, by the way, is how his plan is going to impact ordinary americans. >> back to the 2020 democrats a bit later, but we begin the hour with the impeachment inquiry. another damning transcript, another important witness and another tweet from the president making clear he will complain even when he gets what he asked for. the transcript is from the witness who has a lead role in next week's public hearings. bill taylor, his testimony adds to t

. >> yeah, it's not helping the president's case when they, day after day after day, stonewall the legitimatenate has to do. if there's nothing to hide, they should be producing the documents and sending them over to the congress, the house and senate intelligence committees. they shouldn't be withholding -- they shouldn't be withholding testimony of course and this just makes them look guiltier and guiltier and we've seen this movie before when administrations start to stonewall and start to cover up what's happened after the actions have already been taken, it rarely leads to a good place for the white house. >> as you run as a candidate, you're also in this very unique position that you're in the senate and there will presumably be a trial in the senate i think. what does that mean as far as witnesses we might hear from? i'm talking about those that so far have not come forward or the white house has blocked, like acting chief of staff mick mulvaney. do you think that he would appear? >> these people have an obligation to appear, and if they don't appear, i wouldn't be surprised to see art

announcing the first impeachment hearing will take place next week as president trump said all of the stonewalling had nothing to do with him. cnn goes inside of northern syria where u.s. allies abandoned by president trump pullout are being forced out of their homes and into camps. >>> plus arrested on thanksgiving day 1983. now after 36 years in prison for a murder they didn't commit, three men are finally free. >>> welcome to "the lead." i'm erica hill in for jake. we begin with the politics lead. the first impeachment hearing scheduled for next wednesday focus on a constitutional grounds to impeach president trump. the news comes as the president insists he would love for secretary of state pompeo, cleave of staff mulvaney and energy secretary perry and other current and former administration officials to testify but he must protect the presidency. it is focused on the with holding of aid to ukraine and today we learned the first official action to withhold the aid happened on the very same day as president trump's controversial call with the president of ukraine as cnn's sara murray reports.

it's not only that he was in san francisco he lived a few blocks from stonewall when stonewall happened.inwas the very summer of awakenings. that was the summer when the springlike reckoning had turned into tribulation for those three months he was at the hospital 22 hours a day and slept on cots in the hospital he completely missed it. he would say to me sometimes, you remind me of my shrink. by the way he was an analysis. two or three times a week for 50 years with the same man. as he said, i think we are getting somewhere. [laughter] 's analyst would say, oliver, you are the least affected by gay liberation of anybody i've ever met. i would say similar things to him and he would say no, i sit in my prison cell, the gate flung open the doors of the prison flung open and i listen to the dancing outside but i stay in my cell. he would often quote grace paley extraordinary lined every person invented to serve the open destiny of life. he talked about what his interest was in the world of his patients was the intersection of faith and freedom. and that everybody's life no matter what the ext

how big of a blow is this going to be to the new white house stonewalling strategy? >> it's a big blow. look, laura, one of the things from watching this court hearing, i was there just a few weeks ago when the judge was just ripping apart their arguments from the justice department because these were some very novel arguments. the idea that the president can essentially grant absolute immunity to everybody, not only people who still work for him but people who worked for him in the past, and that's what we're talking about with don mcgahn, who's been fighting this subpoena for now seven months. i'll read you just a part of the ruling from the judge in which he says, this court holds that the executive branch officials are not absolutely immune from compulsory congressional process, no matter how many times the executive branch has asserted as much over the years, even if the president expressly directs such officials' noncompliance. she said essentially over 250 years of recorded american history, we've established that presidents are not kings. so what was remarkab

look, all of these case, every time the administration or a witness who's complying with their stonewalling loses in court, it does send a message that other people will lose, but it's not binding on those other people. so if mcgahn is ordered to testify in front of the oversight committee, presumably they'll set something up and he'll do, but i don't know that bolton will. >> i don't think mcgahn will do that. if congress wins on monday is the administration will appeal and they're entitled to appeal and this thing is back on a slow boat to nowhere. this is the reason why adam schiff decided in the intelligence committee that we're not going to court because we just don't have time. now, that's a decision that i don't know that was correct, but it is true that the very act of going to court is a guarantee of a multi-month delay to a real resolution. so, yes, monday will be important. but it certainly will not resolve this question once and for all. >> john bolton, david, do you think that is a witness worth fighting for for the democrats? >> absolutely. absolutely. it's clear from the last

i would regard all of the stonewalling strategies by the white house as a stall tactic. >> congress also wants to hear from john bolten. he shares an attorney with kupperman. we don't know yet if he will show or follow kupperman's lead. how crucial is their testimony? >> bolten's testimony i think has the potential to blow this whole thing wide open. bolten was a very senior official. obviously national security adviser. he has a very substantial reputation and i think if he came forward and decided to go negative on the president, that could really change the direction of the inquiry. as it is now i think the democrats have very substantial evidence if not overwhelming that there was a quid pro quo. that is why you're seeing some republicans start to acknowledge that publicly and say, well it's not impeachable but there was a quid pro quo. >> now we are moving into this public hearing phase where the american public will be able to hear from these witnesses. donald trump jr. has a new book coming out. in it, he criticizes robert mueller, saying democrats put mueller before congress and

republicans prepared to say that they will allow this president and any future president to simply stonewallrovide everyday. if they do, itjw! impeachment clause is anullity, more than that, it means our oversight is anullity. >> i know where you are with the whisingy1un blower and the leaft you don't need to hear from the whistle blower before. you did pledge the intelligence committee would hear from the whistle blower in some form or another? >> we had a deep interest in having them testify. two things happened. one we were able to prove it with witnesses that had first hand information and second the president and his allies whistleblower's life in danger. the president instead the whistleblower and other should be treated as a traitor and a spy and we ought to use the penalty and that's the death penalty so here's the thing, chuck, we don't need the whistlñ broeer's second-hand -- blower's secondhand evidence. it would gratify the president's desire for retribution. >> that is not a good enough will be reason to bring in the whistleblower. >> on the senate trial, one of the reasons you

how big of a blow is this going to be to the new white house stonewalling strategy? >> it's a big blow. look, laura, one of the things from watching this court hearing, i was there just a few weeks ago when the judge was just ripping apart their arguments from the justice department because these were some very novel arguments. the idea that the president can essentially grant absolute immunity to everybody, not only people who still work for him but people who worked for him in the past, and that's what we're talking about with don mcgahn, who's been fighting this subpoena for now seven months. i'll read you just a part of the ruling from the judge in which he says, this court holds that the executive branch officials are not absolutely immune from compulsory congressional proce process, no matter how many times the executive branch has asserted as much over the years, even if the president expressly directs such officials' noncompliance. she said essentially over 250 years of recorded american history, we've established that presidents are not kings. so what was re

four white house officials snub the scheduled testimony today as democrats on the hill say the stonewall strategy is actually helping their case. >>> plus red alert for democrats. new polls suggest president trump still might have an edge in battleground states depending on who they nominate. what voters in critical counties are saying, if anything at all, about impeachment. >>> welcome to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. we begin with the politics lead. the house intelligence committee today released the depositions of two key witnesses in the impeachment inquiry and provided much more detail about the shadow ukraine policy that is leading to the president's likely impeachment. for his part, president trump continues to attempt to defend himself, mainly by attacking his accusers and lying about them. for instance, claiming that the whistle-blower complaint has been proven false even though it has not. multiple former and current trump administration officials who have testified have backed up the whistle-blower's allegations that american foreign policy and taxpayer dollars were being used

this has been tested before and nixon tested it with his stonewall approach and there is no incentivecutive, the president, to help impeach himself. what they are doing, what the white house has done is they've kept away as best they can from the house -- >> no state department documents and no mull vainy and no bolton and no pompeo, beyond a reasonable doubt, could prove that president trump is the reason yet hold was placed on the security. >> so you have greg here, the what in the quid pro quo and the who, the president of the and the why and they laid out the why. let me play that. >> president trump demanded a favor of president zelensky to conduct investigations that both of you acknowledge were for president trump's political interest, not the national interest and in return for his promise of a much-desired white house meeting for president zelensky. colonel vindman is that an accurate summary of the excerpts that we just looked at? >> yes. >> miss williams? >> yes. >> ambassador sondland stated that the president only cares about big stuff. i noted there was big stuff going o

and they're stonewalling for a reason because it has documents.'s go back to mick mulvaney. >> he said there was a quid pro quo. he then also said everything that i did as far as ukraine i did at the direction of the president. that is a direct linkage. he admits there is a quid pro quo and i did it at the direction of the president. >> john, let me ask you this. in what universe does gordon sondland and you're not going to get this money and unless you announce an investigation into the bidens if he didn't get that directly from the president or if he's confident that that's exactly what the president wanted? >> it's not certainly clear from his testimony because he says in his testimony he had no direct conversations with the president that he was the pointman of ukraine and it comes down to the secretary of state and bolton at the time and he's never contact with the president and he's smart enough to know that he shouldn't be talking about what he does and did not do with the president and that's exactly one of the gaps in his testimony is tha

white house officials are stonewalling the impeachment inquiry as republicans shift their defense of president for more on this, it's time for "a closer look." ♪ [ cheers and applause >> seth: we've established this repeatedly, but it's worth remembering as the impeachment inquiry intensifies -- donald trump is very unpopular he lost the popular vote in 2016 by a greater margin than any president in history and more people have had a negative opinion of him than a positive one since virtually the start of his campaign. no politician has been this unpopular for this long since gerald ford pardoned nixon and then fell down that flight of stairs [ laughter ] remember when we thought slipping on wet stairs was the dumbest thing a president could do [ laughter ] my god we were adorable. [ laughter ] now, in trump's defense, he is not at risk of slipping on wet stairs because he keeps toilet paper on his shoe to dry - [ laughter ] each step as he goes [ cheers and applause see trump has always been unpopular. by contrast in 2018, democrats won the house with the largest mid-term margin of

so we are heading into a new phase, jim, but potentially next week we can see a lot of stonewalling fromte house. and democrats pushing back. >> true. >> although it's been notable that many of those officials and current ones have ignored the white house stonewalling and gone ahead and spoken. for more on how the white house is reacting to all of this, let's speak to senior washington correspondent joe johns. he is outside the white house this morning. joe, we saw house republicans stuck together yesterday under enormous pressure from the president and the white house here. does the white house believe its strategy is working? >> well, it's clear that the white house is happy with what happened over on the house side. the senate is the big deal for the president of the united states because if the president is impeached, the senate is going to hold a trial and it's important for him to keep all the republicans together over there. and a question, of course, is how is he going to do that? one way to do that is certainly to reach out to the public and try to shore up your support there. t

so for -- for trump, the strategy of stonewalling and saying i did nothing wrong seems to be working. there's no sign that they're changing that. >> so we saw a parade, if you will, here, david jolly, of some 12 fact witnesses. we have seen over 35 hours -- some 35 hours i should say of testimony almost. and the question that i started with at the top of the show is if the democrats are still potentially seeing more documents come out and these 100 pages that we have here now and -- and more as natasha was saying about coming monday. why the rush, then, those who are kritle of tcritical of the why not wait longer? >> well, there is an argument that you could get even more information and particularly if the white house would cooperate in allowing mulvaney and bolton and even pompeo perhaps to testify. but recall, richard, as joyce said, through a totality of the evidence, a firm case of impeachable behavior. this entire fact pattern started with the president's admission around september 22 or 23. he said why would i give money to a corrupt nation? and when pressed on it, he said, of

i think the trump team's going to continue to stonewall and appeal and appeal and appeal.we're talking about, bolton and mcgahn, have long-standing relationships with republicans. and have been -- bolton's got a book deal and mcgahn's got a law practice that are really dependent a lot upon their history in working with the republican team. they're not going to jeopardize that. you know, so i -- i don't see any great change coming in that cart. you might have these two -- these two fellows parnas and whatever his name is -- >> fruman. >> maybe they would be available. but i imagine -- and i imagine schiff will want to interview them first. but that's a question beyond -- it's over my pay grade. >> well, let me ask you this. are you confident that you'll be able to convince the american public that this stonewalling by the white house, this delay, delay, delay tactic from the white house means that you just got to move now? or are you a little bit concerned that there could be some people out there that say, hey listen. they might be stone walling. they might be trying to ru

no wonder the white house is totally stonewalling the impeachment investigation and is not handing over any paper. it turns out there's tons of paper. it turns out they really did do all of this stuff by e-mail and discuss it in realtime, in records that were retained that are currently being held by the white house. i mean, this is like jackpot testimony for investigators. just as an example look at this part of it. question, so this july 12th e-mail from mr. blair and the white house chief of staff's office, what did it say? answer, to the best of my recollection it said that the president is directing a hold on military support funding for ukraine. what else was in the e-mail? nothing that i recall. was any other country mentioned? no. any other security assistance package? no. any other aid of any sort? not to my recollection. any other topic at all in this e-mail? no. to whom did mr. blair in the white house chief of staff's office send this e-mail? to mr. duffey. and who else was on the e-mail? i don't recall anybody else being copied. mr. duffey then forwarded this e-mail to you?

what we know is that he is trying to stonewall this thing from beginning to end. so it would not be consistent for him not to remember and to do that when -- if any of those people, frankly, had exculpatory information and information that would cast him in a more innocent light. he would be driving them himself to connect them to the witness care. that's not what he's doing. >> from a legal perspective, it may not matter whether we hear from the president's mouth or not, and yet we haven't until this phone call that's been overheard which you'll get more testimony about it, but everything else has been -- someone had a conversation with gordon sonde loond, right? or some instances they're saying he lied period. >>ier in, what you say is not true. the memorandum of call, the transcript. >> in which he asked for a favor. so far, we've gotten people saying gordon sondland said it to him and rudy giuliani, and we haven't heard it from the president himself other than the transcript. >> erin -- erin, it is an interesting legal standard which would suggest if anyone wa

so that's a stonewalling of congress that is an impeachment article in my mind. you of course have the obstruction by the president saying nobody can testify, i'm not cooperating. you certainly have all the obstruction that you had during the watergate case. in this case, all of the meetings that led up to the july phone call between zelensky and trump, you have the shadow foreign policy of someone who is not part of the state department but who all the state department officials felt was interfering in the normal policies and processes of the state department. it's a really clear case for impeachment and i would say if the president could be indicted which i still believe a president can be, you would have a violation where extortion doesn't have to be by threat of physical violence. it can be under color of law. there are plenty of crimes. of course, the election law is clearly being violated when you ask for something from a foreign power. you cannot accept anything for your campaign from a foreign government and that is exactly -- >> or a foreign national. >>

because that would have to play out. >> even assuming, chris, that the stonewalling succeeds in delayingto the point where justice delayed is effectively justice denied. >> but if the decisions come out and say these people don't have to testify, could you still obstruct -- could you still try to impeach on the basis of obstruction on the same witnesses? >> well, it's not just the witnesses. first of all, no court is going to find a witness has standing to sue the congress because they don't like a subpoena. so ultimately that court is going to rule that dr. kupperman has no standing. >> so for you it's just about time, you don't have questions about the law? >> it's about time. he's well represented. his lawyer knows what the court is going to ultimately rule. it about obstruction. i'm sorry to see witnesses going along with that obstruction strategy by the administration. i will say that the one court that has adjudicated this is the court that said harriet myers, you need to go testify and she did. and i'll tell you this, chris, i did a sepp digs in that investigation of karl rove. ge

congress the way he stonewalled the mueller investigation.nd honestly, when it comes to the mueller investigation, when it comes to the core allegations at the heart of that scandal, well, we just got a really, really, really, really good new account of how that all came together. and specifically, what the people who looked hardest at that evidence came to know about the president, how they came to know it, and the price they paid for it when it became known what they were doing. glenn simpson is a former investigative reporter at "the wall street journal." he's also the founder of fusion gps, the firm that began looking into donald trump right after he joined the presidential race in 2015. firm that hired british ex-spy christopher steele of the famous steele dossier. republicans in congress have hauled glenn simpson in for testimony. they have gone after his bank records. they have tried to discredit him at every turn. but glenn simpson is still doing his work. he has a new book out with his fusion gps co-founder and fellow "wall street jo

, are rupp republican prepared to say they will allow this president and other president said to stonewall congress and not provide evidence and that means that our oversight ability is also a nullity. >> i know where you are on the whistleblower and the leaf you really don't need to hear from the whistleblower anymore. but you did blej that the intelligence committee would hear from the whistleblower in some form or another. are you going to fulfill that pledge? >> we had a deep interest in having the whistleblower testify until two things happened. one, we were able to prove everything in the whistleblower complaint with witnesses that had first-hand information. and second, the president and his allies effectively put that whistleblower's life in danger. the president said the whistleblower and others should be treated as a traitor or a spy. and we ought to use the penalty we used to use for traitors and spies. that's the death penalty. so here's the thing, chuck. we don't need the whistleblower's secondhand evidence anymore. it would only serve to endanger this person and to gratify th

they should fill document requests from democrats and republicans, and they've been stonewalling whennot of this issue but others. >> harris: i do understand and respect what you say. pretty good to look at the evidence and see where the arrows point. what we are really talking about is swampiness. i think the bar and out how swamptastic is is different on how you are going to figure do you march off as a candidate for president. former russian advisor fee on a hill, we set her transcripts are coming out momentarily. they have popped. our senior producer on capitol hill, chad pergram, says the fiona hill testimony has been posted. we know we've seen this online. you print many of them will know if of 200 or 300 pages. we aren't able to see this one yet, but chad can. he always sends us the link, melissa. as soon as we can cook on it, we will. meanwhile, chad is going through this. he typically gives us the top headlines out of those first 90 to 100 pages. he's amazing at looking at these materials. we will go live to him as soon as we can. alex, your thought on the hunter biden? we ar

the white house has pretty much stonewalled this entire investigation.one thing they have said is no account acting official can testify because those conversations that person would have had with trump would be privileged. but if that privilege is weakened, if the person is no longer working in the building, is no longer in the west wing, the white house's hold and control over that official is ate atenuated. lyndon johnson said we don't want inside outside the tent peeing in, we want somebody inside peeing out. >> mulvaney is not the only one. one of the crazy things here and i think you wonder how much of this was on purpose and how much was a byproduct of everyone attending to the president's obsessions. but you have pompeo, mulvaney and vice president pence and rick perry, all of whom appear to be in some way, shape or form connected to the fundamental thrust of the attempt to extort ukraine here. >> yeah. you have -- it's all the president's men. there are people who are acting at the behest of the president. so congressman welch, who spoke to you

morning, i am chris jansing in for craig melvin at msnbc headquarters in new york, defiance and stonewalling. a new front emerges, several are refusing to show up to testify on the hill today despite subpoenas issued last night. so how will house democrats respond? >>> plus, as a majority of americans back the impeachment fight a growing number support removing the president from office could he still survive impeachment and win the election? what our brand new polling reveals about the answer to that question. >>> and warning signs flashing for democrats. while new national polls may spell trouble for the president, new numbers from key battleground states show democrats may be in a little bit more trouble in 2020. >>> we're going to start this morning, though, in a new era of defiance by the president and his allies. a big escalation in the battle between the white house and democrats over the impeachment inquiry. what was originally set to be the busiest deposition day on the hill turns out to be a bust because all four witnesses scheduled to testify and again we've confirmed they were su

and then stonewalled. the congress has a responsibility to do oversight. >> is he a threat to our elections that he needs to be removed as nancy pelosi intim mated in her letter? >> i think he's a threat to the country. every single day he's there, ire rain iraions are pressing their advantage. and it may be that we don't end one a conviction in the senate. i think that's probably likely, sitting here today. that we won't. we're still going to have to beat him at the polls in november. and i think that's what people in iowa and new hampshire are expecting is going to happen. >> you and i have talked about the system. we've had them on the show the other day and in the show "american swamp." does the american people have so little trust in our government that donald trump is able to get away with this sort of thing because they think all politicians are corrupt and washington is corrupt? because it is corrupt, legalized bribery and how we fund our elections. we legalize bribery, to an extent, without lobbyi

can you tell someone that stonewalls basically a part of an impeachment crime?> so the setting is a little bit different because this is not a criminal case. it's impeachment proceedings and the fifth amendment applies only to the defendant in a criminal case. their inference that schiff is drawing. these witnesses, that these are the first-hand witnesses we heard the president complaining for so long the democrats weren't bringing to testify. lo and behold the reason we didn't hear from the first-hand witnesses is because the president wouldn't let them testify. so now schiff has the president in a little bit of a box, either those witnesses come in and testify and presumably they are not helpful to the president or we would have already heard from them or schiff can draw the inference saying the reason that they're not testifying is because they have nothing good to say about the president. you know, this is one area where congress has actually managed to outrun trump. the intelligence committee is actually running more quickly than trump can spin new conspira

investigators -- plan to stonewall investigators. it is not clear whether former national security adviser john bolton will appear. and then there's this new development. lawyers for the whistle-blower who triggered this whole impeachment inquiry say their client is willing to answer written questions from republicans, but that may not satisfy gop lawmakers who want to hear from him in person. and the president and his allies also demand the whistle-blower's identity be revealed. but let's begin with harry entin with these new battleground poll numbers. what do you see, harry? >> i think it's very interesting what we see. let's give you a reminder and set the stage here. in the 2016 presidential campaign, what did we see? we saw nationwide, hillary clinton beating donald trump 48-46. but in the six closest states that trump won that helped determine the electoral college, arizona, florida, michigan, north carolina, pennsylvania, wisconsin, trump won by a point. so let's take a look at these new battleground polls and compare them to