charlie: did he have to develop -- denounce stravinsky? julian: he did denounce stravinsky. given pages to read, either you look at them before or did not, and in he's he got have very long speech to read. he thought i would read the first page and sit down. the american translator read the english version, and he sort of idly followed it. he found himself denouncing himself, denouncing the cookie of, to know -- denouncing prokofiev, denouncing stravinsky. stravinsky, in exile in california at the time. and who shostakovich thought was the greatest composer of the 20th century. he had always revered him, and here he was having to denounce him. charlie: coming to this, did you decide in your mind, i want to explore the collision of power and art, or did you say, i want to look at shostakovich's life and see what it means? julian: both, but the novelist picks up where the biographer and historian have to stop, where the known facts stop. and we without showing the joy, if we could, take you further into the person, to their art, their soul, and their memory. charlie: did you f