. >> josh lederman joins us, he's done some reporting on oath keeper leader stuart rhodes. thing. >> well, if you look at the remarkable arc, chuck, in the life and history of this man stuart rhodes who i think we'll all get to know a lot more about in the coming hours, this is not someone who spent his whole life as an antigovernment kind of guy. this is a former congressional staffer, somebody who worked in these same halls that his compatriots attacked on january 6th, and really was someone who started out in libertarian points of view, going to ivy league law school, clerking on the supreme court in arizona, even writing an award-winning paper about how the bush administration in his view was violating the constitution with its war on terrorism. and what we have seen from stuart rhodes, if you examine his writings over the years, is that the original commitment and interest in liberty and freedom gave way over the years to a more nativist type of approach to politics that we've seen from so many of these individuals. in stuart rhodes' case in particular, the oath keeper

so morgan, talk to us about what we're expecting when stuart rhodes faces the judge in a half hour. if you are outside the courthouse, our extremely talented tv producer will be inside the courtroom to give us updates on what's going on. >> reporter: yeah, that's exactly right. this meeting before the young is set to take place at 2:30 local time. we cannot tell you definitively is he is in the building. we seen security increase somewhat in an hour or so. this is the first time he will face a judge that could bring potential prison time up to 20 years. this after he was taken into custody yesterday in little elm, texas. that is a suburb outside dallas, we are in plano, where the eastern court is for the eastern district of texas. this is a highly anticipated moment, the 56-year-old man, the leader of the far right militia group the oath keepers that is facing significant charges, rare charges and right now we have heard from his attorneys that say that the evidence is not enough to warrant these charges. however, we have seen some of the communication that federal investigators hav

. >> reporter: it's the most high profile charge yet, stuart rhodes of texas, the leader of the oath keeper is in federal custody to carry out acts of violence to stop congress from formal lip counting the electoral college vote for president. they're charged with the crime of seditous conspiracy all crimes are serious, this is an unusual charge not often brought is more serious. >> reporter: as early as two days after the eplex, prosecutors say he reached out to his leadership team with this encrypted message. we aren't getting through this without a civil war. they say he messaged the team, we ned to make those seniors very uncomfortable with all of us being a few hundred feet away the day before the riot the fbi says one of the oath keepers drove around the u.s. capitol on a reconnaissance mission january 6th, as rioters began breaking through police lines, he messaged his leadership saying they stormed the governor's mansion in massachusetts a. short time later oath keepers began working tear way into the capitol in two groups lined up in military-style form eight. stuart rhodes

today a man named elmer stuart rhodes iii, working class hero, became the first to be arrested and charged with seditious conspiracy in an indictment by the department of justice. he is a leader of a gang called the oathkeepers. first, here's how the law defines seditious conspiracy. if two or more persons conspire to overthrow, put down or destroy by force the government of the united states or levy a war against them or to oppose by force the authority thereof or by force to prevent, hinder or delay the execution of any law of the united states. now, that law and that charge, seditious conspiracy, was most notably used against puerto rican nationalists in the 21st century. in fact, that moment they were charged for was the most violent moment in the capitol. that's when they stormed in and opened fire. it was also used against right wing government groups, including a group of white nationalists charged with sedition and ultimately acquitted by an all-white jury in the 1980s after they tried to overthrow the government and tried to establish an all-white colony in the pacific northwest.

what can you tell us about stuart rhodes' replacement? a -- a longtime ally in the oath keepers -- i think, really, a message being sent by this organization which faces legal peril from all sides here. stewart rhodes's arrest, obviously, being a big part of that. but also, a whole bunch of scrutiny both from the justice department and the january 6th committee, i think you are seeing oath keepers here really not backing away from this role that they have tried to play as almost a kind of paramilitary militia group it that has taken the big lie and run with it. this announcement about the leadership change there really isn't much of a change in direction for the oath keepers and i don't think that you are going to see the law enforcement authorities or the investigators in congress back away or -- or take less of an interest in the oath keepers as we go forward here and as these criminal and legislative investigations play out. >> jill, one of stuart rhodes' attorneys told cnn the indictment is quote a work of fiction. take a listen. >> m

today, their leader and found issue, guy named stuart rhodes, made his first court appearance in plano, text terks, and entered a plea. in had a moment, we will have more on who he is and how his group came to spearhead right-wing extremism's eruption on to the national stage a little more than a year ago and flirtation before and since with one of this country's two mainstream political parties. first, though, all we learned since last night, which is a lot. some of which, helps further bury false notions about the insurrection that we have all the been literally hearing since day one. for starters, remember the initial refrain subsequently amplified that these weren't really trump supporters but were antifa? in fact, a lot of former president's supporters still seem to make that argument. well, according to page 22 of the indictment, rhodes responded on -- on his signal chat channel to a claim that antifa broached the capitol according to the indictment, rhodes replied nope, i'm right here, these are patriots. keep that in mind as you think back to how many times over the last year,

among them, oath keepers leader stuart rhodes arrested in texas and accused along with the others of seditious conspiracy. prosecutors say the far-right group played a role in planning the attack, recruited members and stockpiled weapons ahead of january 6th. and you can see them there in the capitol rotunda. other video shows members and military-style uniforms marching into the capitol in formation. you can see it just in the video there. the new indictments say even after january 6th, they continued to plot, to oppose by force, the unlawful transfer of presidential power. now, oath keeper thomas caldwell claimed he took a reconnaissance trip to washington before january 6th. >> every single [ bleep ] in there is a traitor. every single one. >> okay. so what exactly is seditious conspiracy? because it's important, and why has it taken so long to bring charges this serious against the capitol rioters? cnn's paula reid has our answers. >> reporter: the justice department escalating its efforts to prosecute those responsible for january 6th. charging oath keepers leader stuart rhodes

the founder of the far-right oath keepers group, stuart rhodes indicted with ten others in a federal grand jury in the sprawling probe, the indictment is chockful of damning evidence in the planning and logistics that began just days after the 2020 election. >> they obviously were armed in lots of different ways. they were well funded. i hope that this arrest and this prosecution will shut up those of our colleagues who keep saying, well, if it was a conspiracy, how come there are no conspiracy charges? if it was seditious, how come there are no seditious charges? >> reporter: many capitol riot defendants were charged with obstructing the certification of the vote count on january 6. this new indictment significantly raises the stakes accusing these defendants are continuing to plot after january 6th to block president biden from taking office. >>> joining me live this morning in washington, cnn crime and justice reporter kaitlan pollance and michael zeldin host of the podcast, that said with michael zeldin. so nice to have you this morning. so much to unpack. kaitlan, to you first.

>> well, ana, we expect that this is going to be a procedural step here before stuart rhodes is transferredto face these charges. this is essentially his initial -- his initial appearance which is just a procedural step, and then, as you said, you know, these are some very serious charges that the federal government is now saying essentially that this was a conspiracy that -- that spanned from right after the election to even after january 6th, and i'll read you just a couple of passages from the indictment and two days after the presidential election rhodes urged his followers, according to prosecutors, to refuse to accept joe biden's election. he said we aren't getting through without a civil war. too late for that. prepare your mind, body and spirit, according to prosecutors, and then on december 22nd, according to -- to prosecutors, rhodes said that if biden were -- were able to assume the presidency, quote, we will have to do bloody, massively bloody revolution against them. that's what's going to have to happen. according to prosecutors, ana, even after january 6th, after the -- after

stuart rhodes is the leader of the far right militia group the oath keepers. he and 10 others are charged with seditious conspiracy. >>> declaring robert f. kennedy's killer assemble a political violence, governor newsom quashed a parole panel's recommendation to release sirhan sirhan. the 77-year-old has served more than 50 years behind bars for the association at a los angeles hotel. if you want to read more about the case of the governor's decision, we have posted links on her website, kpix.com . >>> the last couple of years have been a bumpy ride for all of us, but bay area roads are getting ridiculous. kpix 5's andria borba shows us they are more treacherous than ever now that the recent storms have passed. >> reporter: the recent rains might be good for the reservoirs, but not so much for the roads. watch where you drive, or you might find yourself with an unwelcome trip to the body shop. forget what goes bump in the night. right now it is about what is going bump on the roads. thanks to everyone's favorite hazard, potholes. >> the road conditions are ho

stuart rhodes facing a judge for the first time after being charged yesterday by the justice departmentehind bars until next thursday when the same judge will decide if he is granted bail. out front now, evan perez, our senior justice correspondent. and donald ayer, who was deputy attorney general under president george h.w. bush. i appreciate both of you. so, evan, let me just start with you with the reporting today. rhodes' lawyers say that, you know, he's gonna be -- should be released. they say he is not a danger to the public. obviously, the charges he is facing -- the evidence in the indictment suggests that he was behind an imminent threat of violence, that he organized one, that he amassed weapons for one, and then when it failed, said that there should be more. um, so where does this go? >> right. exactly. and i think one of the things they are also probably going to argue at his detention hearing, erin, is that look, he was inter interview by the fbi in some months ago. i believe early summer last year. and he sat down with the fbi probably not the best idea. his lawyers would

his name is stuart rhodes. he's charged in connection with events leading up to and on january 6th.s arrested today at home near dallas. he's a former army paratrooper and a yale law school graduate. he's appeared in court documents in the conspiracy case for months as, quote, person one. ten others, including nine who already face charges, were also indicted for seditious conspiracy which carries a possible prison term of 20 years. seditious, by the way, in this term means incopyright or causing people to rebel against the authority of a state. >>> well, we're following some breaking news and you might have felt it. a small earthquake in contra costa county, a 2.5 magnitude quake struck just after 520, 10 or 11 minutes ago. it was centered five miles northeast of danville. no reports of any damage or injuries. >>> up next, he's one of america's top figure skaters, and he's headed for beijing. we'll introduce you to jason brown and his other talent off the ice. >> she says the company gave her the wrong size window, but they can't seem to agree on a clear solution. i'm consumer inve

insurrection, charging 11 people, including the leader of the far right militia the oath keepers stuart rhodes

stuart rhodes and most of his co-defendants entered their not guilty pleas during a preliminary hearingon. they face a maximum of 20 years in prison if convicted. a new york city police officer gravely wounded in a shooting that took his partner's life has now also died of his injuries. officer wilbert mora was 27 years old a procession was held for officer mora today. his fellow officer saluted as his body was taken from harlem hospital. mora and officer jason rivera were fatally wounded friday after they were called to a harlem apartment by a woman who needed help with her adult son. police saleh sean mcneil threw open a bedroom door and shot the officers as they walked down a narrow hallway. a 30 officer shot mcneil who died monday. just as experts predict a peak of the only chron surge at the end of the month there is now according to authorities a new version of that strain to worry about. a handful of cases are already being reported here in the u.s. correspondent jonathan serrie has the latest from atlanta. >> a new omicron subvariant spreading through parts of europe and asia ha

the day after stuart rhodes was arrested in a suburb of the dallas-fort worth area and according to the 48 page indictment he is facing five criminal charges including that most serious carnal of seditious conspiracy and federal prosecutors are saying that rhodes and others spearheaded an attempt to oppose the peaceful transfer of presidential power and plotting to prevent this transfer of power using force. in that indictment they detailed some stunning and new allegations that we have heard. the most we've heard in the last year. the federal prosecutors say they intercepted communications that were used through the encrypted app signal in those text messages that they got and captured, prosecutors say that stewart rhodes texted we'll have to do a bloody, massively bloody revolution against them. that is what is going to have to happen. we are not going through this without a civil war. prepare your bond, mind and spirit. and the indictment going on to outline as he drove from texas up to washington, d.c. prior to january 6, that on january 3rd he bought firearms and firearm gear here

prosecutors, there was a signal encrypted-out message that was being communicated by these groups, and stuart rhodesays, quote, it will be a bloody fight. we will have a fight, that cannot be avoided. that is a quote from the indictment. and according to this, it is reaction to president biden on another one. on another one leader rhodes says, quote, we will have to do a massively bloody revolution against him. that is what's going to have to happen. that is a reference to the idea that on january 20, president biden is going to assume office, something they said they would never accept. alisyn and victor? >> elie, let's go to you next. more than 700 people have been arrested as part of this investigation, but these charges of seditious conspiracy are a first. explain what is this charge of seditious conspiracy. >> victor, this is really a powerful statement by the justice department. the term sedition, obviously it's a powerful sort of loaded term, but it's important that people understand what is and isn't charged here. there are various forms of seditious in the federal law. one of them is to try

she is actually the estranged wife of oath keepers' founder stuart rhodes who was ordered to remain jailed on wednesday while awaiting trial for seditious conspiracy and other charges. he is among 11 charged with plotting to oppose, by force, the execution of the laws governing the transfer of presidential power on january 6th. rhodes has pleaded not guilty but we know investigators have loads evidence laid out in his indictment. he says he didn't step foot inside the capitol that day but was allegedly using signal to communicate with other members of his group and listen to him on november 10th, after the election was called for biden. the oath keepers founder boasted about having his team positioned and prepared to engage in violence on trump's command. >> we have men already stationed outside d.c. as a nuclear option in case the attempt to remove the president illegally, we will step in and stop it. inside d.c. we will also be on the outside of d.c. armed prepared to go in. >> so, so nutty. tasha adams testified before a judge this week she fears for her safety and for the safety of the

. >>> the justice department's arguing in a court filing that oath keepers' leader stuart rhodes shouldl for seditious conspiracy related to the january 6th capitol attack. as he awaits his day in court, there are questions about whether rhodes talked to any lawmakers or those with ties to the former president. happened with other oath keepers but doesn't stop there. here is cnn's randi kaye. >> we did a meetings couple years ago where our representative from washington, paul gosar came out and we asked him flat out at that time, do you think we are heading into a civil war? and his response to the group was just flat out, we're in it. we just haven't started shooting at each other, yet. >> reporter: that's gym royo, a member of the oath keepers in arizona talking about meeting with congressman paul gosar. it is a relationship gosar has never publicly disavowed. his office never responded to cnn about this issue. and he is not the only trump booster connected to the group. roger stone was accompanied by members of the group on his trip to washington, d.c., on january 6th. stone says he

the department's already made good on that by charging the head of the oath keepers, stuart rhodes, withn. very notably, he did not actually enter with the capitol. he did not illegally enter or himself try to stop congress that day. if you look at the charging documents, the department says that he was a key player and sort of the mastermind behind the attack. >> harry, in terms of the individuals -- particularly the three lawyers, i think katie is correct to say that the odds of their cooperation are probably pretty low. we will see what happens. how do you think this plays out? >> all right. so they are low, but, look, they have a lot to lose, more than the average person. if they are held in contempt and it's sustained, it really is curtains for them professionally. now, i also want to second what katie said and say very roughly, january 6th and doj are about trying to align what we now know as being, you know, a are seditious conspiracy case to the oval office and that would be roughly speaking i think two conspiracies, one the kind of marginal group that is a bridge from trump to t

stuart rhodes for example was arrested today in texas but the other oath keeper members lived in other states including florida, alabama, georgia, ohio. so law enforcement from around the country have been working this case and the others, hundreds of others for the past year, jake. >> ryan, more breaking news we're learning of new subpoenas just issued by the january 6th committee. >> reporter: that's right. the committee now demanding that four major social media companies, that would be alphabet which owns youtube, meta which owns facebook, twitter, reddit, hand over information they say is vital to their investigation. the committee asked the groups to voluntarily hand over this information over the summer. they say now that they've been given an inadequate response from these social media giants. the committee now forcefully asking for that information as they believe it is important for them to get to the bottom of what happened here on january 6th. >> thanks to both of you. let's talk about this. before these charges were announced republican senator marco rubio was on the senat

insurrection, charging 11 people, including the leader of the far right militia the oath keepers stuart rhodes. now sedition conspiracy is defined as if two or more persons conspire to overthrow, put down or destroy by force the government, or by force to prevent, hinder or delay the execution of any law, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property." now in plain english, this is the first time our government has called some of the events that happened on january 6 a conspiracy to use force to prevent the presidential transition. it's important to understand who we're dealing with here. now unlike the randomly thuggish proud boys, the oath keepers are an organization largely of current and former military, law enforcement, and first responders. they're trained by our own tax dollars to know how to use those weapons. in their statement announcing the indictment, the doj says rhodes and defendants conspired to transport ammunition into washington, d.c., organizing trainings to teach and learn paramilitary combat tactics and bringing in and contributing paramilitary group. they're also ac

she is actually the estranged wife of oath keepers' founder stuart rhodes who was ordered to remain jailed

conspiracy charges against a number of january 6th rioters including the head of the oath keepers, stuart rhodes, who was arrested today in texas. joining me now is nbc news justice correspondent pete williams and university of alabama law professor and former u.s. attorney joyce vance. welcome. i know we've been going through this breaking news, pete, but we're topping out the hour and i want to go back and lay out the the bare facts here. the arrest of the head of the oath keepers and a number of other rioters with seditious conspiracy, this suggests the doj is closing in on some of the people who they say were in fact organizing what happened on january ofth and leads us to suggest it was supposed to go even farther than it did. >> right, that's the key question after reading this indictment. it's one that we may have to wait for these trials to get an answer to, which is, was there a well-developed plan before these people came to washington to actually enter the capitol and try to stop the vote by intimidating members of congress right in the capitol while they were working. but the big new

they had. just today the oath _ hear about it if they had. just today the oath keepers militia, stuart rhodes the country. exactly, that proves my point, _ they are in the country. exactly, that proves my point, it - they are in the country. exactly, - that proves my point, it undermines ourjustice that proves my point, it undermines our justice system that proves my point, it undermines ourjustice system is to say, look, we can try white people for these crimes, but we can't even try these people of colour, we can't even grant them that citizenship they are entitled to, bring them home and trust our justice system entitled to, bring them home and trust ourjustice system to handle it. can only handle them if there are certain religions or racist. bryan, you're shaking your head, but it ultimately comes down to whether governments decide whether it is more dangerous to keep their former nationals out of the country or whether to bring them back and prosecute them. the whether to bring them back and prosecute them.— whether to bring them back and rosecute them. . , prosecute them. the danger is

stuart: that's just such a mess and here's another one for you. rhodeage. that's a complete retreat, isn't it? i mean, they haven't got the staff to run the hospital so you let in the covid-positive people. that's a complete retreat. >> it's a complete retreat. i think the public is sensing that there's, we're a little bit lost in the forest here. you know, watching them scramble to try to change these rules, it reminds me of sort of like a snowstorm. when the snowstorm is coming, the locality will have a plan in place to try to handle the storm and basically keep the roads clear, but you can't stop the storm, and what i'm sensing from the government is that they're trying to stop the storm instead of just keeping the road s clear, if that makes any sense. they are trying to stop the inevitibility of omicron basically sweeping through the public and i think i'd mentioned this last time i was here. we're all going to either get it , come into contact with it or be exposed to it over the course of the next couple of weeks and nothing that the cdc or the f

stuart: it is a beautiful morning. that is narragansett, rhodeny but a little chilly, 29 degrees tuesday morning. futures, read them and weep, very much in the red. especially the nasdaq, interest rates rising, doesn't help the nasdaq which is down 235 points, 300 down for the dow. i want to get back to the attack on the abu dhabi oil field. congressman michael also with us. i think this is another example of the president's failure in foreign policy. the iranian's attacking us all over the place when we were supposed to talk about a new deal. how do we fix our standing on the world stage. >> the sophisticated drones to launch precision strikes, saudi and the uae, didn't just build those in the mountains of yemen. they were provided the expertise and hardware by iran, this is in the wake of the biden administration taking them off for terrorism list and they attacked our embassy back in november and saw 0 in terms of consequences. once again we have another adversary doing it because they can get away with it and destabilizing the world, attackin

stuart roads, the leader to have the oath keepers faced a judge for the first time yesterday after being charged with seditious conspiracy. federal investigators say the oath keepers under rhodesation wearing tactical gear, the militia group amassed firearms on the outskirt of d.c. and planned to use them to stop the lawful transfer of presidential power. rhodes' ex-wife telling wife saying he believes he's a transformative historical figure. these indictments come as the january 6th committee weighs a major escalation in their investigation, subpoenaing sitting members of congress. the committee's request for voluntary interviews with minority leader kevin mccarthy, as well as congressman scott perry and jim jordan have all been rebuked. joining us right now to discuss the latest developments is member legal contributor glenn kirschner, and taren rosen kranz. it's been more than 25 years since the federal government successfully prosecuted someone with seditious conspiracy. why is it so hard to prove? >> you know, we don't often bring as the federal government seditious conspiracy charges. i think, lindsey, looking back, the last 90 or 100 years, we've only brought seditious

stuart, the head of the far right militia group oath keepers had into custody for alleged involvement before and during the january 6th 2021 attack on the capitol. according to the nearly 50 page indictment, rhodes and 10 others face charges of seditious conspiracy marking the first time the justice department brought the charge since the attack itself. seditious conspiracy is defined as attempting to overthrow, put down or destroy by force the government of the united states. the maximum sentence 20 years in prison. >> i think it's extremely serious. not many people in the history of this country have ever been charged with sedition. >> according to the indictment the oath keepers planned the attack following the november election. allegedly bringing guns, knives, camouflage and other military tactical items to the capital city. according to the document, during the melee, rhodes messaged his group that vice president pence is doing nothing. as i predicted, rhodes added. all i see trump doing is complaining. i see no intent by him to do anything. so the patriots are taking it into their own hands. they have had enough. authorities say some oath keepers stayed outside of the capitol organizing w