what stuxnet showed us was that the rules of engagement were not completely formulated when stuxnet was released. i think that has slowed down the use of attack weapons to a certain extent. there have been people that told me stuxnet was the 1st that was released. attacks against georgia and estonia which do not reach the level of what we understand cyber warfare to be or warfare in general. stuxnet would qualify as the 1st digital weapon. >> host: we often here from generals at the pentagon that cyber warfare is the new frontier. how threatened are we in the united states by that? >> guest: how vulnerable we are, we are very vulnerable. any country any country that is connected in the way the us is that relies upon computers for our critical infrastructure -- all of our infrastructure runs on computers. they had to devise a method to spread it on computers not connected to the internet. attackers will find a way to get onto the system and destroy it. it is unclear to the extent. there are a lot of estimates of a cyber pearl harbor. i i don't think anyone knows the full capacity because

it's probably engineered around 2008 and looks suspiciously like another computer virus called stuxnet which we know the nsa designed. we haven't confirmed it yet but there are few countries in the world that could divine something -- design something a sophisticated so we are very good on the offensive side of it. >> just a follow-up by raids recently spoke with the a british intelligence officer cyber giata said the chinese get into everything but the people that are most afraid of the russians because they don't leave fingerprints and we don't know what they can do. we only know that they are good. >> the russians have tremendous technological prowess. the chinese are audacious and they don't seem to care they get caught. the russians are very good at covering their tracks. you have a lot of several years ago after the demise of the soviet union you had a lot of highly-skilled computer engineers is that suddenly not great employment prospects. a lot of these people upon to work for criminal and investigation -- organizations. they ate and abetted to some degree. i was told by one se

what was stuxnet?