and so all of a suddn, these mortgage-backed securities could be distributed throughout our own company. and pretty soon people said, "well, why only package the securities that your customers create? why don't we go out to mortgage brokers and start buying some of their securities? and we'll package those and we'll sell them." and then, i was retired at the time, but you read in the press and you may even have seen on television, no doc and low doc. now, no doc/low doc means no documentation or low documentation. low meani less than the regulators would require of you. >> you didn't ask the person, the homeowner who was buying the house, "show me proof of your wages. show me proof of your savings." >> that's right. but can you imagine that you publicly acknowledge that you were creating products and selling them into the market that had no documentation or less than normal required documentation? and this was -- it's sort of like taking a product and putting a skull and crossbones on it and saying, "this mht be poison," and putting it on the supermarket shelves. >> you know, i hear you