so sufism can be seen by these incredibly famous musicians from south asia and africa. still has amazing resonance. and i don't want to sort of give short shrift to islam and something i have to deal with which is jihad. now, what is jihad? jihad is actually not bored and does not not murder. the literal translation is struggle. and the greatest struggle is within yourself. the lesser struggle is the struggle to defend islam. i've shown in my book you can get into the details. i don't know if you know it goes really deep into this now that even for defense of islam there are really clear rules deline e delineated and needless to say in the context of taliban and islam has been in contradiction. but jihad is an offensive doctrine that's something of course that's something that's debatable and i go down as do a lot of muslim scholars that's meant to be a defensive doctrine add the very best to be waged in the defense of islam as a last resort with clear rules laid down. and as scholar says about jihad and says about terrorism, she says that, it is difficult to find suppo

>> i think of sufism, which is a lot of what you seem to be referring to in islam which is a special part of the muslim tradition, and a very central one. and i believe that from my solve study of different reasons, the study of most religions are such as you describe sufism, peace loving, very heartful, and pretty universal. mostly the same sorts of things. i know that in my own tradition, the mystics are a very small percentage of us. i'm wondering if you can take a guess of what percentage of muslims that you can look at. >> i try to answer that. formally, very few. but the practice of a lot of muslims are viewed and performed by sufi islam. in southeast asia, the islams, a lot of them, they have a large presence. south africa, i would say, but perhaps the single exception of the persian gulf which i have not found it to have. there is a strong presence and in a lot of the practices such as peace, you know, shrines, believing in the saints. one would think and hope that with the saints their beliefs would also come into the idea notion of islam too. for many muslims, it does, for