because it happened over 20 years ago involved a state senator, the late penny sutterns and one of my at the time, an a.p. reporter here at the capital. penny served at the senate from 1986 until her tragic and untimely death from breast cancer in 1998. for much of that time, there were no openly gay members. >> senator penny, barack obama's men tour in his first year in public office in the state senate in illinois, she only died in 19d 9le. . she's not that long ago. but everyone in 1998, when she considered her marriage was a secret until everybody. and then the story eventually could be told. terry is a lawyer. she's a former journalist and -- >> thank you. it's a pleasure to be here. it. >> it feels like i'm talking about you in the room. but this is a very personal thing. given how big she looms in illinois politics. why is that? >> penny and i when we fell in love in 1993, i was a journalist and she was a senator and we embarked on a very complicated, hidden marriage. . ened e and tlout all of those years, even though we atempbted to kind of come out of the closet at various po