an his part in the deadly january 6th capitol insurrection bac with me even here, lisa rubin, suzanne craig her live in her let me start with you because someone very prominent a series of investigations sen it message early to say, if yo want to see justice with donal trump's may not have been th case you wanted to see the start with >> was that for me >> sorry ali, look, people are saying that, i think the short answer, they're two quic answers to that. on people as you pointed out o an indicted for the same kinds of crime and second i actually think leases made a really goo point, about potential conspiracy charges i think hackers but they're th end, not simply the power to stormy daniels, but kind o conspiratorial course of conduct from 2015, even into the white house when he' paying off checks but look how a way to look at is he is th first out of the box, that's significant, it's important to come to i think the time wil come, and pretty soon, whe he's juggling different charge fulminating us all of them, won't be a question of wha came first especially becaus both here and fulton cou

joining us now are suzanne craig, investigative reporter for the new york times and one of the league reporters in the times pulitzer prize investigation into trump's princes, also with this is rebecca right fee, a former assistant da in the manhattan district attorney's office. thank you so much for being here, there are not two better people here, to break this all down with. thank you for coming. let me just, craig, when you trace back the humble origins of all this, the 2018 what street journal story that, talked about hush money payments to porn star in the way in which that moment set in motion, is kind of cataclysmic large investigations into trump to where we find ourselves now on the eve of what may be a really explosive moment for donald trump and the trump organization. you knew this man and his organization quite well, from your reporting. did you expect that that would be the straw, as it were, that would break the camel's back. >> i think you never expect what it will be, i think you never expect what will be the fault and these things, and they come up on you. so i didn

all right george, thank you for that i also want to bring a new yor times investigative reporter suzanne craig. suzanne, what do you know in your reporting at the moment will it happen on tuesday, wil it happen on thursday, wha will be the reaction and wha are you seeing >> i was gonna say this is a heart of pool as it's colleg basketball right now you know we don't know, and yo don't even really know what to read into the social media pos that former president donald trump put out this morning he may know something, he ma not know something we do know that this i marching towards what look like an indictment you've had a grand jury sittin and they have been hearing witnesses and been building up you saw michael cohen come i at the end of that he was pretty close to the end if not the end of the process. we don't know if they have voted to return an indictmen but all of the timing look like it could be next week and he is going to be the former president will be notified because you will have to trave to new york. that door sure looks familiar. i've covered trials before and he will be if he c

exist in any those other cases >> andrew weissmann, thank you for that i am going to bring in suzanne craig. pulitzer prize-winning investigative reporter for the new york times thank you so much. for joining our breaking new coverage this morning. you've covered the ins and out of trump's finances more tha anybody. i want to pick up on something that you're times colleagu charlie savage said a minute ago in terms of the charge that trump could face. one being bookkeeping fraud. take us into that? >> well, what it is, and it is how they keep records in thi case wreck michael cohen mad certain payments to stormy daniels. those payments were booked int eternally as legal fees. that becomes, it is misdemeanor. but that becomes the underlyin crime that this will be buil on and it is not dissimilar t what we saw the trum organization went to trial in guilty verdict came out. they also were falsified business records avoidin taxes. it is sort of an underlyin thing that they were sayin it's one thing it was. another i don't know if in addition to anything else yo had attorney but given everything

neal, suzanne craig, hugo lowell and paul butler. neal, i'll start with you. /9ó!raplp sheet longer tn ice cube's record. all throughout all these different potential things that trump is being investigated for. one of the questions that sort of hits me is his sort of handling of these cases also opening him up to future investigations. what do i mean by that? how is he paying for all this? he has already shown tob the kind of person that lies to his own lawyers. he's obviously at this point going to bee1 absolutely eninsurable. no bank inlp this country would ever want to give this man money again. he is absolutely the person who would be pursued or at least get the interest of foreigni] agencies. is it possible that there are other investigations that could come out about donald trump uiiq >> yeah, exactly.e1 so donald trump is a serial lawbreaker andjfq someone who h no respect for law enforcement or for ordinary, normal processes. and t(so, you're seeing some of the fruits of that bear out. now with these fourw3 different criminal investigations into him. so, i

. >> let's continue our coverage with my expert panel matthew dowd, danny cevallos david corn suzanne craigyou and i were just kind o talking in the commercia break. what would the actual lega charge be potentially agains donald trump what's the crime he's accuse of committing if this is i fact indictment? >> the theory everyone's hearing is falsifying business records in new york. the default is a misdemeanor but if it's done during th commission, further anothe crime, it can be bumped up to felony this is where the da runs into a problem, if the theory o that felony crime is a election law violation, i thin the payoffs to stormy daniels, again, i'm a deaf defens attorney so take this with a grain of salt i might have som bias the theory of liability, her election law violation is strange as it was six year ago. it's this, by michael cohe paying off stormi daniels, tha silence they got was a benefit to the campaign that wasn' reported it's not the typical electio law violation. for, example in the case o john edwards, to give you an example he wasn't convicted. is hey, he took a much money

suzanne craig is back, she has reported extensively on trump's finances and taxes since 2016. we turn to her often in news cycles like this one. also tim miller is back, from the bullwark and here with us at the table for the hour, andrew weissmann, former justice department prosecutor, member of the problem robert mueller spec counsel. andrew, what do you think is happening behind closed doors? >> it is not that unusual for a d.a. just before they decide to bring charges to give the target an opportunity to testify. here i have to say michael cohen is right that there is no way in god's green earth that donald trump will testify. with latitia james, he took the fifth. >> and you can't do that in front of a grand jury. >> but he could simply say i'm not coming. he is not being given a subpoena, he is being asked to voluntarily show up to present your side of the story. and that is something that you do as a matter of courtesy and due process and he is entitled to say absolutely not. so there is no reason for him to take a different position here than he did with latitia james.

begin with some of our favorite reporters someone who knows the details better than most of us, suzanne craighere. andrew wiseman, former senior member of robert mueller's investigation. plus, charlie sykes is back with us and mike schmidt, "new york times" washington correspondent. lucky for us they're all msnbc contributors suz suzanne, i feel like us trying to understand what's behind the legal moves, you've always warned us it could be bigger than the stormy daniels' payments it seems like it might also have payments to karen mcdougal tell us what you know is in the documents. >> there's been a lot of reporting at the "new york times" it's going to include potential felony counts. doesn't mean it's going to expand beyond the stormy daniels' hush money payment. it all could be connected, but it could include something to do with karen mcdougal. i always get nervous when i'm on tv and you don't know. i went back and i was looking through michael cohen's first book, reading it and going over it he has this fascinating exchange that he recounts that he had with alan weisselberg when the hush

s office, suzanne craig who has been reporting on his finances and taxes since 2016 and katie phang and host of "the katie phang show" and asha rangappa from yale law. garrett, i mentioned the hard evidence. is today just like every other day or different in any way? >> well, ari, there is a certain sense of expectation today that this could be the final day for this grand jury, because, as you explained, the kind of quirk in new york law that allows a witness from the defense or what would be the defense this this case, donald trump's legal team, to appear before a grand jury, a process usually controlled entirely by the prosecutor. now, we know that robert costello and michael cohen who as you mentioned would get an opportunity to rebut his former legal adviser, both have gone into this building but i can't say there is any indication either have left. i hope you have flexibility in that 6:00 p.m. rundown because this could go a little bit later than anticipated. >> sure. >> reporter: with these two gentlemen testifying, really kind of what we expect to be basically going back and for