so, too, was new zealander steven swart.teven says in 1995 when phil anderson left the team, the riders complained that their european opponents were doping. >> did you talk with lance armstrong about the need to start using epo to be competitive? >> we had a discussion about it, yeah. >> what did mr. armstrong say? >> he did say, you know, if we're going to the tour, we've got to -- we've got to perform. we need the results. >> what did that mean? >> i think he just didn't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. you know? if we were going to be competitive, there was only road to take. >> reporter: was there a discussion about doping in any way with mr. swart? >> he only asked that he was on the team. beyond that, not true. >> reporter: the doping allegations arose in a case brought by lance armstrong against an insurer based in dallas, texas, who provided huge bonuses paid to armstrong for winning the tour de france in successive years. these checks represent when he won on fourth and the fifth making those payment