could sweden provide a model?guest today is sweden's chief epidemiologist, anders tegnell. now, he was the architect of a controversial no lockdown strategy, which continues to stir interest right across the world. has it worked? anders tegnell in stockholm, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. let's begin with the latest picture in sweden. your death figures every day from covid—19, they go up, they go down, sometimes by significant margins. it's hard to get a real sense of whether you are really in control of the spread of covid—19 in sweden or not. what do you say? yeah, we know that the death toll is a bit complicated to follow because the registration of death is sometimes a few days late. so what we do is we now collect data on actual date of death, and we do it in that way that we do not worry too much about the last ten days because we know they are unsure, a lot of things happening and they fill out every day. instead, we look at the days before that and then we can follow the trend much better and we have a c

could sweden provide a model?y guest today is sweden's chief epidemiologist, anders tegnall. now, he was the architect of a controversial no lockdown strategy, which continues to stir interest right across the world. has it worked? anders tegnall in stockholm, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. let's begin with the latest picture in sweden. your death figures every day from covid—19 go up, they go down, sometimes by significant margins. it's hard to get a real sense of whether you are really in control of the spread of covid—19 in sweden or not. what do you say? yeah, we know that the death toll is a bit complicated because the registration of death is sometimes a few days late. so we now collect data on actual date of death and we do it in a way that we do not worry too much about the last ten days because we know they are unsure, a lot of things happening and they fill out every day. instead, we look at two days before that and then we followed the trend much better and we have a clear declining trend. i thinkjust

know, in sweden we don't wear facemasks. in sweden we don't wear facemasks.tegnell, it has been fascinating getting your insights. thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you. hello. there is some wet weather and some warm weather in this weather forecast. first, most of the wet weather will be found across the northern half of the uk. further south, it'll be largely dry, and quite widely it'll become very warm for a time around the middle of the week. the end of the week will feel a bit different. it'll be cooler, windier and more unsettled for all of us. now, you can see frontal systems which will be pushing across northern areas over the next few days, bringing cloud. yes, this cloud producing some outbreaks of rain, but it is to the south of those frontal systems that things will turn increasingly warm and increasingly sunny for just about all of us by wednesday. but, as far as monday goes, some rain to start off across northern scotland. that will increasingly become confined to the northern isles. the north of the mainland will brighten up, wit

in sweden how would you explain what. well as to say we haven't adopted a strict lockdown but mention before loafers and to really usually if we do have recommendations and some regulations as well. we're not allowed to to meet more than pretty persons at the same time and there is a ban for example visiting nursing homes where the elderly and to sum it up with these recommendations and and rules are of course. the governments and the public health agencies way of. battling the coronavirus and the goal is the same as in other countries as well yes we haven't adopted a strict law that one has many of. it's yet good mind to animate and not should not know who the well don't know what is right. now but i agree it's very i think it's very important for people around the world are stamberg there are some restrictions in sweden because now people other countries. starting to talk. restrictions i think it's important to understand. the measures taken swill down our track and that the goal of them missed your. subjects is a car d

last minute and against me as souls in sweden we have non-compulsory and x. nation but still there are 7 percent of all children are fully vaccinated we have just kind of her culture in trust india or george's and following him direct meant mendacious and so i think that's part of their it's however the business of course a very special situation or not but it lou nonce. measurements work the best so you know it's new ground for everyone so it's difficult as point and see whether the his recommendations are enough or not and let me bring you into the conversation to see the note which is rather than under. explaining what would be able to do that today and inch and occur in the finest alley in the us as it's 1000 were dismissed doesn't legally couldn't be a lot damage as seen in other countries within the debate goes on that. in the constitution and then nick says this is an important part of the discussion often gets left out so. easy unless you see me each not having not out was not a coaching think actually you don't need a not very sensible. older house i

do you think sweden has seen the worst of it. >> i think in sweden, tho fp in the surrounding area, beinglation of sweden-- we have had quite a big number of people being ill in the last two months. while many other parts of sweden including the big cities on the west coast and south have had not very many cases at all. but in stockholm and surrounding area we have had a fair amount of cases. we think we are up to about a quarter of the population have been infected so far. deaths have been down in a fairly slow manner. but the number of cases has been fairly constant for at least one month by now which means the health care, it is very different from today than it used to but they have kept on working. everybody is treating the needs, the hospitals kept on working and in terms of care, have at least 20% of the beds free at any given time. so in that respect, it has been successful. we managed to keep the level of spread on a level below the threshhold of the outbreaker which is important. >> trevor: people look at the numbers of countries around sweden and they go, they're death rate is

now our media normally extols sweden as a paragon of wise policymaking, they love sweden and always havesoft socialism. and yet on a dime they turned. suddenly we were told that sweden was in fact a corkscrew and. jeff basil's personal newspaper "the washington post." sweden girds for thousands of deaths. sweden's government is trying a risky coronavirus strategy, it could backfire, wrote vox.com. it's the very same publication that any suggestion that coronavirus came from a lab had been "debunked. as always, vox was confident, smug and totally wrong. at a briefing yesterday, michael ryan, executive director of the w.h.o.'s health directive programs of this about sweden. >> i think there is a perception out there that sweden has just allowed the disease to spread and nothing could be further from the truth. if you act to reach the new normal i think in many ways sweden represents a future model and, sweet and now the model. after a months month of sustained hysterics, praising the lockdown policy in which people were locked outside of their apartments until they starve to death. after a

long as there is no spike in corona virus infections also coming up they do things differently in sweden restrictions are much looser that in most of europe but the government has come in for criticism as the death toll rises to a gas leak at a chemical plant in india kills at least 11 people are struggling to breathe collapsed in the street hundreds are in the hospital. i was here kelly welcome to the program germany is gradually getting back to business but with the option to shut down again if necessary let's have a look some coronavirus restrictions will be eased over the next few weeks the 16 regional states will oversee the gradual reopening of schools and businesses and the aim is to prevent infection while allowing people to live more normal daily lives. shantanu is in you guessed you'd end and today she is finally on her way back to school in berlin after 4 weeks of learning at home through on monday since she is now cycling 2 was her teachers and classmates to see them face to face. i was when i missed not all of it excited and nervous about how it will go but above all i'm rea

there's 20 regions in sweden.hen we have this kind of crisis, we all come together and work together. so it looks like we're having a lot of critical decisions taken at national level, but actually all of them need to be repeated at the local level. >> is it fair to say your basic strategy was to find some way to deal with the coronavirus that -- where you allowed the maximum amount of economic activity while still getting the curve down so that it was sort of sustainable? >> economic activity never played into our decisions. it has, of course, played into the government's decision. it is the government in the end that takes the decision. but our advice to the government has been completely focused on public health. sustainability is the important part of it. we all knew from the beginning this would be the long haul. we would have to live with this virus, with this disease for a long time. so we need to find solutions that we can keep on doing for a long time. we all know that we can't close schools for months, w

is the reason sweden is doing so well. italy also has a single-payer health care system, and they are the country that has than the worst in the western world. the u.k. has a single-payer health care system, and they have not done that great. -- also hashouse so a single-payer health care system and have done reasonably well. markets like germany with a multi-payer health care system have done reasonably well. so we have not seen the correlation. what we have found is that the countries that have really done the best job of responding to covid-19 are the ones that had direct experience with the original size coronavirus in coronavirus in 2003. that virus is similar to the one we have now, which is called sars-cov-2. the countries that dealt with the original sars epidemic like hong kong, taiwan, south korea, other pacific rim countries, they were the ones, in terms of the everyday people and their response and the government's response, they took this very seriously from the start, as soon as the new started coming out of

if it is not safe to open the border to sweden let the swedes stay out but let the germans come. norway denmark and i seem to have managed to stabilize the situation in sweden the situation is more worrying on norway will allow business travelers from other nordic countries including sweden to enter from june the 1st the inclusion of swedes has locals worried when you think about how sweden handled the whole situation and. kind of fair in my opinion to. at least keep it close for some time i don't think they should be to come in here you know because they do have a lot more corona and they're not as careful as we are some sort of way down on the lot of us i think it is important to take care of ourselves 1st and the number of those since that to distil house with him i think it is good that we keep the border closed for a while. lose good on that i think about him i just talked to a friend in sweden yesterday and she told me that their only knowledge going to start was working for him. i was surprised because we are opening up now so therefore i'm a bit concerned devote opening o

when you think about how sweden the whole situation is kind of. kind of fair in my opinion to at least keep it close for some time i don't think they should be to come in here you know because they do have a lot more corona and they're not as careful as we are some sort of way going on i think it is important to take care of ourselves 1st and the number of those info to distil house within i think it is good that we keep the border closed for a while. but i think about him i just talked to a friend in sweden yesterday and she told me that they're only going to start was working for him. i was surprised because we are opening up now so therefore i'm a bit concerned devote opening of the border right now. demand for anti anxiety and depression medications has risen significantly in the us and recent studies suggest 73rd american show symptoms of anxiety depression or both we heard from psychiatry. who explained this rise in numbers. the nature of the pandemic has increased people's desire to campaign is i had a depressed patients and that's because

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, the opening up of sweden , the ability of sweden to get back to normal. how far is your nation to getting back to a normal in economy and normal tax regime, which you are expert in, given the dramatic difference in depth between sweden and the rest of scandinavia? had -- frome have the government side, the advice that experts had given us on how to deal with the pandemic, they looked on a -- they worked on a long-term strategy, having the measures that can also last for a long time, and i think it is important to underline that life assweden does not go on normal with recommendations that we have when it comes to social distancing, working from home, avoiding public transportation, lots of travel. that affects how life looks in sweden, but also of course our economy in other countries. this will of course continue, both when it comes to social distancing and other restrictions. getting -- tom: we are getting in the data now -- and it is remarkable the data now versus nine weeks ago -- how does sweden reengage with europe, given 4000 deaths? how would we e

or in italy or interrogate you can only follow this principle that sweden this using in a country where you have a lot of swedish people why i'm saying this is because this is a place a country. that you would call a high trust society and in a high trust society you trust the authorities you trust the police you trust everybody your neighbor and this means that you don't need mary brutish type of techniques to make people follow here you need recommendations and people will go with you. this is a country that have had peace since 18009 there is no other country on planet earth where you have such a long period of time of peace and this means that swedes in a way behave in a somewhat different way as compared to germans the russians or through or french or any other people so years they had that mulatto could only were applied to sweden because swedish people have heightened sense of responsibility and social awareness and no other country would be able to seriously folly because it will end up in charge of things i mean they're pretty much rule bank they do everything they're told to d

welcome to linkoping in sweden.o know something about what they do with their waste, but let's see a bit more about the city first. and i'm going to meet maria, a tourist guide. hi, maria, how are you doing today? oh, i'm excellent, nice to see you! thank you! let's see more about your city, huh? yes, let's do that. this is the central place of linkopin — the central square — stora torget. uh-huh. and here are some magnificent buildings. they're from, like, the 1800s. with the buses? yeah. we are just seen them passing by. is there something special about them ? well, i would definitely say so because all our public transport is fuelled by biogas. when you show the tourists your city, do you tell them about the sustainability? yes, we do. we do that a lot, actually, and it's also because we feel that we can spread this, you know, to the rest of the world, by doing it. but i think, like, in sweden, we've lived very close to nature, since we were young. we're sort of unified with nature. we have a lot of young people

corona virus infections would need another lock down also coming up they do things differently in sweden restrictions are must looser and that in most of europe but the government has come in for criticism as the death toll rising and a gas leak at a chemical plant in india kills at least 11 people struggling to breathe collapsed in the street hundreds are in the hospital. i'm sorry kelly welcome to the program germany is getting back to business about what the option of shutting down again if necessary chancellor angela merkel says that some coronavirus restrictions will be eased over the next few weeks germany's 16 regional states will now manage the gradual reopening of business and schools now the aim is to prevent infection and while allowing people to live a more normal daily life. in the town of vine ma in central germany restaurants and cafes have already started to reopen customers must be seated outside with their need 2 people allowed per table itself service and there are strict hygiene rules but for many this is more than enough to says. it's wonderful it's liberating and he

and finland add 6 and a half percent so back to your question brad it does not appear that sweden is actually doing any better r.t. correspondents haven't are thank you for keeping us up to date. and as a reminder you can always find the latest news and information regarding the crowbar some portable t.v.'s coronavirus tracker time now for a quick break but hang here because when we return we have discussed the impact of the pandemic on different sectors but our sports very limits of the globe are what take a deep dive into the subject and as we go to break the numbers at the close. they often speak of the black jack that is where all of the universe and. pastor of leaves a central bank balance sheet and its cosmic force pulling the g.d.p. of the world down our white hole of debt as i am a fellow straining with this white piece of cardboard like old jack is on the other side of deep black. and negative interest rates and negative oil prices. the death toll from black to white. 30 years ago the berlin wall fell the cold war had essentially come to an end the fall of this cold war symb

in sweden which is interesting. in sweden at least they have a sort of permanent picture. sometimes the next few to say there is an issue -- too much -- it is the structure with history. and in particular countries of europe, just one country, between 1865 or 1911, one of the most exposed systems. in europe in major parts of the world, up to the owner. within that, the population. with facts - with several dozen, northern systems in effect perfectly included the timing. if someone -- in 1910. accept for the addition in trade unions and workers and eastern workers clearly, with those. social democrats in 1932, that short introduction, the capacity with completely different object. and with more markets and also believe so much policy meeting the teams. what i want to know from this experience is no picture of this with sweden, the picture of enthusiasm. the picture in sweden and the picture of inequality. there are different types. .. it's physical it shows the perfect balance for work we don't know we know it to do for we don't how to solve every problem let people know th

comes to life old news knick knacks are sold at an auction about to feel like in sweden nobody likes wasting anything that is still in perfectly good shape. all of it to the evil auctioneer cristiano has plenty of odd wares on offer and all of them are useful somehow he sees to that himself. whenever a household is dissolved christiane buys up the items that would otherwise have gone into the trash and fixes them up to sell you fin here you can buy things fairly cheaply good things that lasted but also a good. living room suite back there for instance with a film it costs about 80 euros and if you know with the people who need to swedes objects with a story to tell treasures there's hardly anything that someone else would like to give a new home. what anybody would want with an old delight a surveyor's instrument only the buyer knows it's as much in demand as a box full of toys. is one of the betters today is her lucky day it. sold a box full of old dolls for about 20 euro. party. favorite movies i simply had to have it so i just kept on bidding. the auction is a fun way to hunt for

and finland add 6 and a half percent so back to your question brad it does not appear that sweden is actually doing any better r t correspondent saya tavenner thank you for keeping us up to date. and as a reminder you can always find the latest news and information regarding the crowd of our son portable t.v.'s coronavirus tracker time now for a quick break but hang here because when we return we have discussed the impact of the pandemic on different sectors but our sports very limits of the role of buyers will take a deep dive into the subject and as we go to break the numbers at the close. 30 years ago the berlin wall fell the cold war had essentially come to an end the fall of this cold war symbol was heralded as a new spring of nations and the end of communism decades on what is the legacy of this historic event the promises of 1909 been fulfilled. but i. see. i was on the floor in my bathroom you know crying praying. and this time. i was having children fever i didn't have any sense of smell from the most you know and i. would you. recently she you know sometimes you just used t

sweden has pursued a no lockdown strategy during the pandemic in a bid to keep its economy going but is paid a heavy price all the time all the same at $1.00 point registering the highest kovac mortality rate in europe the country's former chief epidemiologist who supported no lockdown at 1st now say sweden should have imposed greater restrictions to save lives i think that we needed more time for preparedness if we had shut down very early we would have been able during that time to make sure that we had what was necessary to protect the vulnerable so we didn't have lost over $4000.00 lives to covert 19 per 1000000 the death rate is higher than in neighboring countries and the weak starting may 12th sweden recorded the highest number of deaths per capita in europe as we discover mentor peers and concerns though saying that strategy is a long term one sweden did not quickly get higher mortality rates as some other countries did nor will we get quickly ready carefully low numbers. our strategy is not based on a week by a meet week measurement of mortality. it is based on a long term p

globally for shutting down the economy but one country that never impose any kind of lock down is sweden and you know but they're not doing any better either economically and also in terms of cases infections in fact the death rate in sweden has now raised significantly more than any other year or more than european countries reaching more than 24 per 100000 people and by contrast their neighbors denmark has recorded just 7 deaths per 100000 people and both norway and finland less than 4 and still sweden says it's coronavirus approach has helped their economy but guess what the numbers suggest a different story and a look at sweden economically now data released from sweden central bank showed that their economy will be just as badly hit as their european neighbors if not worse and sweden central bank give 2 possible scenarios for their economic outlook for 2020 now in this 1st scenario g.d.p. contracted by 6.9 percent in 2020 now meanwhile unemployment could reach 8.8 percent now in a more negative prediction g.d.p. could contract by 9.7 percent with unemployment over 10 percent and now

and look, sweden has many more deaths. remember, also sweden is twice as big. certainly sweden has many more deaths s that the question they have gotten many more infections and further ahead in the development of of the disease? models seem to indicate now, these are the official models in stockholm you had some people get infected that they expect by the end of may, you will either be very close or actually have herd immunity where as in denmark, you have 3, 4, 5% with the disease. so you're far away. denmark will have to keep lockdown, even if it devolves, it will have to get many, many more deaths whereas sweden is already through. can open up its economy and live a much better opportunity, much better life. cheryl: still hard to see the numbers and think about all those lives we lost so far but the answer, we don't have it yet. we don't have the immunity answer. wish we did until scientists tell us for sure there is immunity to the disease we have to be careful. bjorn, thank you very much for being here. i'm out of time. good luck with the book as well. >>

it's not an idea as yet fully embraced by sweden's existing army of truckers here in the southern city of mile might. die you know you'll to go i'm a job. i like my job you meet many people say hello sometimes 60 stops a day this thing can work and floats would mean ferry terminals but the way we drive i don't think so doing that let the meeting make it make things easier when it works but it's hard to replace a human being who doesn't force me into retirement anyway i don't want things to change too fast. or to closures and reduced production have caused job losses in sweden's trucking industry but the lack of a lockdown has helped keep it rolling remote's driving maybe a vital addition if not a replacement for a system that keeps people and the economy alive pull race al-jazeera some told sweden. prosecutors in malaysia have agreed to drop a money laundering case against the stepson of former prime minister najib razak and exchange will return assets worth more than $100000000.00 to the government or as louis has more from kuala lumpur. the full terms of the sense of man have not bee

and finland add 6 and a half percent so back to your question brad it does not appear that sweden is actually doing any better r t correspondent sites haven't or thank you for keeping us up to date. and as a reminder you can always find the latest news and information regarding the quote of our sun portable t.v.'s coronavirus tracker time now for a quick break but hang here because when we return we have discussed the impact of the pandemic on different sectors but our sports very limits of the earlobe are what take a deep dive into the subject and as we go to break the numbers at the close. to 0. thousands of american men and women choose to serve in the country's military and the decision. every came to a complete. the day that i was right. you know what they kill me and i see how it destroyed my life and he screamed at me and. my arm. mean. if you take into account that women don't report because of the extreme retaliation and it's probably somewhere near about half a 1000000 women. i have now been sexually assaulted in the us military rape is a very very traumatizing thing tat ha

rate in europe the country's former chief epidemiologist who supported no lockdown at 1st now say sweden should have imposed greater restrictions to save the lives of the vulnerable. i think that we needed more time for preparedness if we had shut down very early we would have been able during that time to make sure that we had what was necessary to protect the vulnerable sweden has registered over 4000 lives lost to cope with 19 per 1000000 the death rate is higher than in neighboring countries and the week starting in may 12th sweden recorded the highest number of deaths per capita in europe meanwhile weekly testing shows that only 7.3 percent of the population in the country's capital have antibodies against the virus the swedish government appears on concerns though saying its strategy is a long term one sweden did not quickly get higher mortality rates some other countries our strategy is not based on the week by week measurement of mortality it is based on a long term perspective where sweden has the least restrictions among the developed countries citizens were advised against soc

welcome to linkoping in sweden.se i want to know something about what they do with the waste but let's see a bit more about this city first and i'm going to meet maria, our tourist guide. hi, how are you doing? excellent, nice to see you. let's see more about your city. this is the central square. here are about your city. this is the central square. here are some about your city. this is the central square. here are some magnificent buildings. they are from the 1800s. with the buses we are just seeing passing by, is there something special about them ? passing by, is there something special about them?” passing by, is there something special about them? i would definitely say so because all our public chance but is fuelled by biogas. when you show the tourists your city, do you tell them about the sustainability? yes, we do that a lot actually. it is also because we feel that we cannot spread this to the rest of the world by doing it. but i think, like in sweden, we have lived very close to nature since we were you

welcome to $1000.00 special harmonica jones good to have you with us now sweden is among the countries that have opted against a lock down and instead gone for herd immunity and this strategy has arguably led to one of the highest per capita death tolls in the world but very little immunity . maybe in stockholm it's that special time of year when swedes hit the streets after the long dark cold swedish winter but this spring they're asking themselves who's got the coronavirus and who is a new in the government taking a risk by keeping the country open. ensuring broad immunity 1st we said as soon as possible is an aim of chief of bigamy ologist anders tag. but only 7.3 percent of stockholm's inhabitants have developed antibodies to the virus so if you have been infected that's the interim results of a study conducted by the state health authority at the beginning of may the percentage is less than they hoped for a reason to rethink the strategy no says anders tag. nothing to swedish structures has proved them to be sustainable i mean we get figures now that people are actually increasing

in sweden we like 2nd hand things we ship it to us there's something very special at the in this value of all european countries but i'm sure here is where this movement a strong just. but maybe the swedes love for 2nd hand to spread to the rest of europe as well after all just because something is old doesn't mean it's not still handy and sustainable shopping is becoming an ever stronger imperative not just in the far north. the cold bit in 1000 outbreak has a forest many people into isolation while some are fighting boredom at home others of like brood niat. are discovering their creative side she and thousands of other russians have taken to facebook to show off their self created versions of popular works of art and to create some will be artists use the toilet paper food and even pets. fly into a march a goal painting from your bed. or sink into the tragedy of malays ophelia with ink radiance from your kitchen. from edvard to michelangelo social media users are giving our classics the quarantine make over the russian facebook group. or aren't isolation started as a challenge betwe