the harry williams -- the t. harry williams professor of american history at lsu and author of the best selling book, "white trash," nancy isenberg. welcome, both of you. i'm so excited to have you with us, and we're all looking forward to hearing from you. ..

the harry williams -- the t. harry williams professor of american history at lsu and author of the best selling book, "white trash," nancy isenberg. welcome, both of you. i'm so excited to have you with us, and we're all looking forward to hearing from you. .. more specifically, missouri and illinois, and joseph smith's run in 1844. what i found most fascinating about your interpretation of joseph smith and the mormon community is have embraced the toolbox of democracy. what i mean by toolbox is all the various legal and political strategies for pleading their case to state. joseph smith went to the white house and spoke directly with president martin van buren. this is a funny moment and your book. he dismissed van buren as short. you should've said short and fat. clearly smith was unimpressed by the president and congress. he wasn't alone. so here to discuss his white house visit and that address the larger issue of exactly how smith and the mormons viewed the role of the federal government and state power. >> a