t.r. runs at bull moose party candidate. and there's a question, there's a real question that year, is -- are they going to be able to put the republican party back together again? and do you take roosevelt? roosevelt is still radioactive with the old guard. if you take someone who is too conservative then the progressives will not come back, even though their party has been dying on the vine for the previous four years. so you've got to pick someone who is respected by both sides, someone who is not some wild man from the prairies or from the west like a bora or a johnson, and someone who is not a conservative like root, and the man to do it, also the man who has been out of politics since 1910, because he's out of the supreme court, he has not been out of the -- he's not been a part of the 1912 battles, is, is mr. hughes, and he's respected by just about everyone in the party. >> what were his politics at the time? >> his politics at the time were mildly progressive. as i say, he's not like a while man from the west like a

t.r. would defer to the bosses. hughes moves forward, wins the governorship, puts forward a bunch of reforms and moves on to court for of the first time. >> today it would be almost unimaginable for someone to resign from this position, and the building behind us to run for a national elective office. what was the reaction at the time? was it a surprise? how was it viewed? >> i think some were surprised, but also i think that the office of supreme court justice wasn't quite what it has become now. i think part of the reason people would be so shocked today, if a justice resigned, is that the appointments process is much more difficult to actually get through. and it's much more difficult to confirm any justice. so justices are appointed young and are expected to stay for the rest of their working career. now, hughes' first appointment as justice was quite uncontentious. his second one was almost the beginning of the contentions within the appointments process. it occurred fairly soon after there were new rules about

that's actually not so rare according to journalist t.r. things that m americans believe about health care around the world is that other rich countries in the world all have socialized medicine s. that true? >> no, that's bologna. some countries to have the care and provide it. but a lot of rich germany, switzerland, japan, cover everybody in the private system. private hospitals, private docs, priva p . >> so the swiss were getting fed up with their private insurance system in the early 1990s. costs were rising. premiums were disproportionately higher and those with preexisting conditions had trouble getting coverage. son-in-law were foregoing insurance all together. >> the people were flying out of the insurance so we had to stop this. >> dryfues pushed for a law that required everyone to buy insurance. to give subsidies to the poor and stop insurance companies from rejecting people for their medical history. sound familiar? that's exactly what president obama's law would do. but in switzerland, it was an uphill battle. the law passed go

next up on our t.r. interview with the russian envoy for human rights constantine the gulf who says the norms of international law around the world leave much to be desired. thank us. was. accurate. consenting freshened foreign ministries and words from human rights democracy and the rule of law it's great to have you with us again sir hello and good emotion is to be back next the arab spring has upset the balance of power in north africa and the middle east who witnessed islamist movements come to power across the region some are moderate but also the rise of radical islamism is evident what threat do these radicals represent well first of all. called arab spring. a process which probably reflects certain objective phenomena in the in the region that was the movement which pretty much from within. are all of us lee there was certain external participation i would say or even some certain external prodding in those cases where the changes came from within stability in those cases in those countries is ba

t.r. is saying i'm not going to do it. and he throws out a couple of names, leonard wood, who was a big advocate -- a general, army general, advocate of preparedness, got in trouble with the wilson administration, or henry cabot lodge. neither one of these guys is acceptable to the progressives. so he's throwing out that poison pill. what happens is, at the end, the only person that they can agree on, the progressives, is to any extent, is hughes. but they still are in a great tiff and they kind of dissolve the party, the party just evaporates, but they go away, they don't run a third party. this -- this is one of the great things of the legacy of hughes' race in 1916. we take the republican party for granted as a continuing thing since lincoln and all of this. it didn't have to be in 1916. if he's not the guy willing to put it together, maybe the progressives go back in again and we don't know really what happens with republican party, does go the way of the wigs, do the pregnantiogressives replace? who can say at that po

>>st wn ner lotifrhe20 e 0sarly '60s, and he did some books on t.r., d he did a book on the first th-giaynato rscaf an d b "es t of innocent." and what i liked about him was he was writing about stuff i liked to read about. the seven ages o thre ost,t on w hesr de ktyhe ro adt st stengel-esque. but yet it all cme together in this wealth of information. and being able to husbd large amous imall moiset tdfy ieccish -- that i've tried to accomplish because otherwise not only would i dre my readers crazy -- i wodn't myse y.as r >>t:l,leffor oi tathoea kihi eil a, vw, t best and worst presidents before jfk. >> guest: yeah. wihe lis o bksthe list -- even in, kn i thgualko eof s. [laughter] like i understand why they didn't want to do that now. inedinsgeang tgi- iot esnath sna college puts out on ranking the presidents. it occurred to me as i was -- cary esi like, you know, every ven, ise t 70 of r presidents were below average. which mathematically is possible. ab iske, god,etart thinking sue pe ec >>t:t underrated? or a president that you think more attention -- >> guest: well, of course, calvin c

that's actually not so rare according to journalist t.r. reid.f the things that many americans believe about health care around the world is that other rich countries in the world all have socialized medicine. is that true? >> that is baloney. some governments provide the care and pay to it but a lot of rich democracies cover everybody. germany, switzerland, they don't have medicare. people stay with the insurer cradle to grave. >> the swiss was getting fed up with their private insurance in the early 1990s. costs rising and premiums were higher for women and the elderly and those with preexisting conditions had trouble getting coverage. some were foregoing insurance altogether. >> the people were flying out of the insurance so we had to stop this. >> reporter: dreyfus, who would later become switzerland's first woman president, pushed for a law that required everyone to buy insurance, gave subsidies to the poor and stop rejecting people for their medical history. sound familiar? that's exactly what president obama's law would do but in switzerla

i noticed there's n much diversity in the topenho >>gu g t.r nal an obous point, i feel chagrined toit, but i still thk in many ways th inctobo rm i imylden i ghhe were old enough to appreciate, and so i would s ny msoutmef r, eckgd clg g barnard writers, one graduated from the wr.uhos rkae nd erno qio that in the list of back ofhow reading changedded my life, there's a sof ecy g aitando we k, ere s virtually no opportunity for black men or women to publish then. part of it is because o o rrow afoset i evch i.b t h areev times on bookt and did to oktv.org, search function, whswi ynd thec-a-nd foresight of saga? >> guest: i love the foresight of saga. i think whatappsse esy,re lh a elnolof cin odti a nthes but the first ranks. the gulf worthy is not dickens, tryal there'sh a nothing i like better than a really big doorstop of a big. i loveerdaheos nereancoheha trilogy, those in one book, i mean, you just look at the book and say, okay, it's going to take me a long time to finish >>t:er aseeat fng re a w20u qiout tad . it to thank you for the book, what aift. neround ow me and told m t

he was an aviator on the western front, and i think there's a book about t.r.nd lodge and albert, called the war lovers, and he loved the war and was willing to die himself, but to have his son die was -- may have been the last straw which literally killed him at the end. but his health really was bad. but if he is in, he wins. host: you write about herbert hoover in your book, 1920. hoover was a great humanitarian but not a great human. he could rescue the starving mass office europe, but he could not do it with the noble words of woodrow wilson, the energy of a theodore roosevelt, the aimability of a warren harding, or the grinning charm of a franklin roosevelt. he merely did it. >> guest: yes. and herbert hoover, until he becomes president of the united states, really has this remarkable career of achievement, and despite his personal lack of charisma, he has an amazing story. an orphaned boy in iowa who goes to oregon to be with his ununcle with a dime sewn into this pocket. and then goes to stanford, continues on to the gold mines of nevada or california.

in business for a long time, from the '20s to maybe the '60s, early '60s, and he did some books on t.r., and he did a book on the first decade, longingish essays on that -- longish essays on that first decade of the 20th century. and he did a book "movies in the age of innocent." and what i liked about him was he was writing about stuff i liked to read about. the seven ages of theodore roosevelt, that was one. he would have this great, meandering kind of style where throwing all kinds of stuff, almost stengel-esque. but yet it all came together in this wealth of information. and being able to husband large amounts of information and still keep it together in a story that moves is something that identify tried to accomplish -- that i've tried to accomplish because otherwise not only would i drive my readers crazy -- i wouldn't have any readers -- i'd drive myself crazy. >> host: well, we leftff prior to going to that short break asking this e-mail about, in your view, the best and worst presidents before jfk. >> guest: yeah. um, each with the list -- even with the lists of books i was t