t.s. elliott, and as some of you may know, t.s. elliott was also born in the congregationalist church and from the distinguished line of congregationalists of new england and t.s. elliott converted to episcopalianism and he wrote several essays on it and a very great poem, which we both read called "ash wednesday" and elliott described himself as converting to -- the english version of catholicism. he called himself an anglican catholic. and bill saw himself in a similar way. we talked about elliott and connected his conversion from congregationalist to lutheran, similar to elliott's episcopalianism. did i answer your question? >> which poet do you both like? >> that's a good question. well, i would say this tells you about me, but i am one of -- i was one of the last people around who attended robert frost's final seminar and i -- robert frost, if you read in the lawrence thompson biographies, he set conditions that he would only teach seminar that could be taught in a parlor environment, there would be no grades and there would be

t.s. elliott that were central to college curricula up until about the time that you all were born. i was thinking about this and doing subtraction. you've probably heard the story of how in 1987 students marched across the stanford college campus with jesse jackson chanting hey, hey, ho, ho, western culture's got to go. that time, around the late '80s, was the time when professors across the country reconfigured their reading lists getting rid of the bad old dead white males and replacing them with authors picked for their gender or their politics or their ethnicity or sexual orientation or for some sort of victim status. of course, not all the classics completely disappeared. colleges still taught aristotle, shakespeare, but they began to teach those classics really differently. i'm going to give a could couple examples about shakespeare. sprigally -- traditionally for about 400 years intelligent readers, college professors said essentially three things about shakespeare. they said he was universal, of universal interest. he's not of an age but for all time as ben johnson said. th