the primacy of the supreme court, let me remind you in 1857 the best judge in america, chief justice taney said that dred scott a black man was not entitled to the same rights as anybody else. and so they don't always get it right either. i've learned something in these eight years and that is we have a racist and corrupt criminal justice system in many areas. >> right. >> this is why i hope one day maybe you'll join me in the fight to reform our criminal justice system and do something about the problem of oversentencing blacks and latinos. i learned that when i was there. >> well, what's sad is you hadn't actually learned that when you mattered. when you actually were the governor. you talk about working for the criminal justice reform. there's a lot of people in chicago and in illinois who actually like spit up when you say that because when you were actually in power and when you were actually governor and could have helped thousands of people with clemency cases you blew it off. the governor after you inherited a huge backlog, nearly 3,000 clemency petitions that you failed to review.