tanger, they actually need guys to go under so they can raise rates. one of the greatest shopping in these outlet centers -- >> explain the outlets. >> it's an outlet and there's -- shopping center. i love stocks that go higher. and don's got a great one. >> you've talked about his portfolio. i've seen many interviews you've done with him. i have one of his centers near where i live in new jersey. >> can you get near it? >> no, packed. 100% occupancy rate for the most part. how do we know -- it's so selection of site and being able to get the right lessors is the key. how do you know who's got the best portfolios out there? obviously you think federal realty does. >> i think you have to look at the ceo. it's the ceo. it's these guys who really know what they're doing. real estate is a very difficult business. and it's a foreign business for many of us. the guys you see that are years and years -- like steve tanger, his father was in it. they know where the action is. literally it's a feel. i know that sounds weird. but it's a feel. >> talk about some o