pleased to have taryn simon back at this table. welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> rose: you and i have been friends for how long? >> 20 years. >> rose: and it's been a remarkable journey. how would you define the journey you have been on for the last 20 years as an artist? >> laborious and calculated in many ways, but when i think about my work, i used to say it was guided by my anxieties or me trying to understand the systems by which we order ourselves and to find some logic in the overwhelming madness that surrounds us. but mo and more i feel it's compulsive and i don't know what guides it but it just keeps happening. so... >> rose: and you just go with it? >> yeah. >> rose: it demands of you and you produce? >> yes. >> rose: your father was a photographer. >> yes, my father and grandfather were both huge influences. they both collected an enormous amount of data and simultaneously took photographs which accompanied that data. so that was always a guiding force that i followed, both in very different directions. my grandfathe