ijudge tatel is an old friend, one of america's most distinguished judges, and is so well suited to help us cast light on the state of democracy in the judiciary today. neal katyal, one of america's most distinguished supreme court advocates and scholars who also happens to be my brother in law, and now i have to do this. the follow up line, which is we now have a roadshow going around the country called brothers in law. so this is part of that installment, and we're much, very much looking forward to we've enjoyed milking this for all it's worth for a while. a judge, this is a perilous time for the judiciary. mount vernon has just commissioned a poll about americans attitude toward democracy in the judiciary. we may be able to call it up a little bit later, but it suggests a tremendous polarization about the way americans see the courts with at the moment. republicans tending to favorite and democrats less so. also, division about the way americans think the constitution should be interpreted with democrats more than republicans favoring a living constitution and republicans favoring an

ijudge tatel is an old friend, one of america's most

, and then we're going to do old switcheroo scheme and get a jeff rosen is going to bring up judge tatel and katyal and have a great conversation as well so we're going to have a continuous session about the constitution. and let's go, ladies, gentlemen, please welcome mary sarah michael klarman, jeffrey rosen and moderator doug bradburn. wonderful. thank you, jeff. democracy. well, good morning constitutional principles, ideas for 100. alex, what what is the constitution in mary building you start yeah i this is something i find i spend a lot of time with my talking about is the fact our constitution our notion of a constitution was kind of new genre right is a new idea that you could have a piece of paper and you could write down on that piece of paper. the frame of government and in the period that the framers were working with in 1787, that idea was in transition. so people had begun to write down on pieces of paper charters. they were in england, they were state constitutions what they wanted a frame of government be, what rights they wanted, but no one yet had really begun to think