but then later when he worked for ted kaufman,, ted kaufman ws in the center because he wasn't running for reelection so he was protected -- >> from delaware. >> so he took joe biden succeed when he went to be vice president. he did not need to run for reelection and, therefore, he didn't care about campaign contributions. he describes in the book, a conversation between paul volcker and ted kaufman, senator, in which paul volcker said anything you propose to do at all, anything at all always say lending will suffer, growth will suffer. and then he tossed and he says, i'm quoting, it's all bull shit. that's what you said. i go do something to some event where i speak, the sausage being made. i see the interaction between the lawyers of the regular's and the lawyers of, a lot of lawyers involved by the way. not economist by the way. a lot of legal stuff. it's this power-play that's complicated and they have this interesting relationship to its like the tax code. they want to buy that complicated to generate more jobs for consultants and other people so they write a very complicated legi