no one, not even terrance williams or his attorney, say, "he's innocent." we have to look at criminal law on a case-by-case basis. and there is no reason for terrance williams not to have his destiny with the death chamber. >> let's talk about something else. chief ramsey sitting on the president's panel, taking a look at things after ferguson -- dozens of recommendations. and the two he seemed to point out for philadelphia were this -- independent investigations and prosecutions when there's been a police-involved shooting. you said, "do what you want on investigations, but not prosecutions." why not? why not take that question away, since we know prosecutors and the police often work together closely? when people have questions, like in the case of brandon tate-brown, let somebody else look at it. why oppose that? >> well, i applaud president obama for starting this commission. i think selecting commissioner ramsey was wonderful. he demonstrated such grace and leadership after the murder of police officer wilson. i just can't say that enough. but in this