not margaret thatcher. you could bank on what she said to she rest defeat, ma and believed she was acting in the best interest of britain. the sign of a true patriot. more importantly, she delivered on the promises and british voters reported her by three elections in a row. suddenly -- secondly, when i arrived in britain it became apparent there was no alternative to margaret thatcher. she demonstrated me the class of economic principles in the 19th century mocked by the textbook worked with socialism didn't. i also realized that many british politicians at the time were looking for others to do their work for them to reverse decades of socialism. this began with the imf bailout and extended to some in the european community. thatcherism was about british politics and doing the heavy lifting themselves. even worse, her opponents were advocating doing nothing or even more socialism. some surrendering sovereignty to you. as an american i found this repugnant. third, i learned from thatcher that the enemy of

. >> you look just like margaret thatcher. >> i tried to look like har get thatcher. this is parting gift. we're going to hang it over your fireplaces. >> we also have with us former treasury official and morning joe economic analyst steve rattner. >> i brought a present to go with that picture over the fireplace. >> can we open it now? >> you can open it right now. i know you love presents. >> it's a single shoe. >> if you like this, i'll get you one. >> can i open it for you, joe? i love presents. >> that's how you open presents? >> how she opens presents. >> what did you get? >> i have no idea. what is that? >> that's so good. that is so -- i need a camera. i need a camera. bring the camera over here.

margaret thatcher was ready for a fight.ry few politicians that i ever interviewed who would directly answer a question and go right at you. so that is a question here. is it policy backbone or character backbone? >> it is really both as you mentioned. margaret thatcher was an extremely courageous leader. she wasn't afraid of picking a fight with her political opponent, she would stand up to them and most of the time victorious. she was someone who clearly believed in a set of beliefs which surround economic freedom and she stood by those principles. she did not believe at all in appeasement, in compromising her political opponent. she had little time for those within the party who she viewed as a bunch of people who were hopeful conservatives which really were a bunch of liberals claiming to be conservative. endless battles within the conservative party against those who she felt it didn't actually believe in conservative principle. she once referred to the government as the worst socialist government in british history. st

let's start with thatcher. there has just been huge outpourings of tributes to thatcher on the occasion of her death. magazine covers revisited. your book takes apart some of the myths of margaret thatcher. >> guest: well i tried to do that. it's always a challenge because you want to show why somebody is worth knowing about in the first place. there have been a lot of revisionist histories of thatcher. a lot of people correct some misperceptions about her but first you have to establish why she is importing the first place in very few people would dispute that she is hugely and immensely important. like any hugely important transformative figure she has generated a lot of myths. there are many myths about her and for example we think of her, american conservatives think think of for think of or is this icon of conservatism. well guess what? she was in favor of national health insurance. she never seriously tried to dismantle the health system in britain because she knew how popular it was. she voted for the la

asked the same question of how where did all the money go because these are the people under the thatcher revolution who should've received all the benefits of not only north sea oil but also this deregulation that was supposedly supposed to help us out and make us all wealthy and get rid of these crack crack any old national owned enterprises and yet we're the poorest generation how did that happen when there's another angle to this go back to the reagan era deregulation the financialization the commodification of all markets around the world simultaneously you also have something going on in the environment around the world we hit peak oil we had peak. timber we hit all kinds of peak resources and natural resources are the ultimate source of wealth for the planet earth so during the last twenty or twenty five years you see scarcity of natural resources concurrently with plough proliferation of skyrocketing. debt so the debt creation as enabled these corporations and bankers to extract the what's remaining and you end up with what we've talked about before the economics of extinction so

boycotts to hurt the poorest surely so should mrs thatcher was very adamant i mean she would have given anyone a hand-bag going to suggest that you transfer a country as industrialized and developed a self africa to a bunch of ragtag communists and that was the a.n.c. in the one nine hundred fifty s. the platform was nationalization and communism ok all right we're going to let me tap in here that i let me jump in here but that didn't happen and that's a very interesting point roger if i go back to you i mean how do you think della saw the world in one thousand nine hundred after twenty seven years in prison because he learned is absolutely correct when he went to prison it was a certain world view when he came out what he wanted to do with virtually impossible that's why i'm going back he was a perfect front man for this new agenda in south africa to end apartheid importantly go ahead roger where my views largely align with jeremy's although alone and make some very very good points look we all have the luxury of twenty twenty hindsight when mandela emerge from prison on the economic s

ronald ragan and margaret thatcher were really the most resistence to imposing sanctions. we're saying to the president at the time, we have to do something. >> and they wouldn't. >> yes. >> and they wouldn't. >> and yet -- >> and vetoed by it. >> when mandela came out of prison, one of the it was a very very long line. and payment were wondering what that conversation must have been, and he said please give my warmest regards to madame thatcher i home to meet here one day. this man had such composure. >> you are staying here with me. let's get to white house, we are anticipating a statement any moment now. mike, let's have you to the ebbing tend that he with have the time. walk us to the president's comments. well, i think we can expect barack obama to say what he is going to say in the past, that is that nelson mandela is a personal inspiration to him. at occidental, he wasn't political active but became so. the president had sited to heros in his life, one of them is gandhi, and the other is nelson mandela. them soon mandela closed a statement saying i have fought again

let's start with thatcher. there is a huge outpouring of tributes your bird texas are some of the myth. >> guest: i tried to do that. it is always a challenge because you want to show why someone is worth knowing about in the first place. there's been a lot of revision of the history of thatcher come but, of course, first of many have to establish why she was a board in the first place. a very few people vote -- a transformative figure it generated a lot of myths. there are many about her. for example, american conservatives think of for as this icon of conservatism. guess what, she was in favor of national health insurance, never seriously tried to dismantle the health system because she knew how popular it was. she voted for the law when she was in parliament, decriminalizing homosexuality. she never interfered with gun control. if she had a chance she voted for abortion. so the social issues in which britain sometimes have very different opinions than american conservatives she does not look like a tradition

as i said to people, if walter cronkite had interviewed margaret thatcher, would you have said obviouslyhere is hanky-panky. i spent a lot of time with fidel castro. i found him fascinating. but no, there was -- there wasn't even flirtation. i -- i thought that he was the most interesting man. all the things he did that were really quite terrible, but we did spend a good deal of time together, would not have happened today. i wish we could do another interview but i think he's beyond that stage. >> number four, were you ever embarrassed in an interview? do you have a moment you look back and go, oh, no? >> yeah, i do should have, could have, would have. why didn't sky that? why did i ask that? i know sometimes it boarders on going too far, but i try not to hurt. i'm not a cruel person, and there are ways of getting answers without just going boom. you can say what's the biggest misconception about you? you can start a question by saying, you know, there are those who say and you can get away with asking certain things. i'm not cruel. i feel differently, by the way, piers, about politicia

you can see that in what he asked the simple question of the myth that is pushed by hollywood by thatcher by reagan the myth that was pushed is that you know we don't want those those old state run socialist sort of systems that we had in the forty's and fifty's when everybody was rich and everybody was gaining wealth and everybody was saving wealth and he says that was when taxation was much higher with the top rate of income tax at eighty three p. in the pound the debt to gross domestic product ratio was much higher inflation ran at up to twenty six percent and the nation was saddled with all those lame duck industries which according to the mantra could no longer pay their way in the world and yet those that generation of people has more wealth then the generation that followed once freed of allegedly the shackles so what have we done what new shackles have been put on us in this allegedly free world right won't you make a good point that the supposes freedom that would come with deregulation has resulted in the bankruptcy of this current generation and the immediate generation they're

his research indicated that f edward and margaret thatcher had a conversation.rd said to her, what do you think i should do? and her response was, the vote passed two years ago, it passed again on a record vote this year. now the democrats control the senate. it will pass the senate. this investment will become the law of the land. his response was, so what should i do? her response was, free mandela and begin to negotiate a new south africa while you have leverage, because if this investment becomes the law of the united states, with cooperation around the world, you will have no leverage. and so he said, tell mr. dellums, that while this bill never became law, it hung over south africa like the sword of damocles. >> wow. well, california congressman, ron dellums, thank you very much for helping us understand this history on this night of all nights, sir. it's invaluable to have your perspective here. thank you so much. >> it's my honor, my friend. >> thank you. dan rather is going to join us next. we'll be right back. stay with us. >> at the end, the bloodlett

i mean -- >> by the way, the margaret thatcher we can argue about her.he was admirable in many ways. but she didn't take away anybody's health care. >> why didn't margaret thatcher cut off or even attack health care because for all of its flaws, the brits love it compared to -- >> churchill wouldn't touch it. >> thank you. same thing with the canadian system. >> i know. that's what they're afraid of. mikey will like it. anyway, thank you ron reagan. thank you, clarence page. >>> up next why the kerfuffle of chris christie. they're trying to figure out if the word bully applies or not. let's keep it open for a few minutes. this is "hardball," the place for politics. side-by-side, so you get the same coverage, often for less. that's one smart board -- what else does it do, reverse gravity? [ laughs ] split atoms? [ flo chuckles ] [ whirring ] hey, how's that atom-splitting thing going? oh! a smarter way to shop around -- now that's progressive. call or click today. >>> u.s. congressman steve stockman of texas hoping to be the next wild man on the right to

i mean -- >> by the way, the margaret thatcher we can argue about her. in many ways. but she didn't take away anybody's health care. >> why didn't margaret thatcher cut off or even attack health care because for all of its flaws, the brits love it compared to -- >> churchill wouldn't touch it. >> thank you. same thing with the canadian system. >> i know. that's what they're afraid of. mikey will like it. anyway, thank you ron reagan. thank you, clarence page. >>> up next why the ker full -- ker full -- ker fuf l of chris christie. they're trying to figure out if the word bully applies or not. let's keep it open for a few minutes. this is "hardball," tths. om cav! today i have new campbell's chunky spicy chicken quesadilla soup. she gives me chunky before every game. i'm very souperstitious. haha, that's a good one! haha! [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. it fills you up right. [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. before using her new bank of america credit card, which rewards her for responsibly managing her card balance. before receiving

margaret thatcher who slammed him as a terrorist said that the a.n.c. could never rule south africa anyone who thought they was living in cloud cuckoo land and it was a similar picture over in the us but actually even more delayed in terms of his rehabilitation if you like mandela was on the terror list and he and his associates were removed from the database intil as late as two thousand and eight nine years after his presidency of south africa was already over now my poli colleague paulus there has been looking at this in more detail at mandela's life over south africa. he's the man who pulled a troubled and divided land back from the brink of civil war the man who after twenty seven tough years behind bars walks free from prison in his heart was not to avenge but i think that his greatest legacy to this country is reconciliation but in the last three decades the world timelessly polished and image recognized around the world only coca-cola is based on known better men who struggle for racial equality again south africa's ruling white minority had a d

his research indicated that f edward and margaret thatcher had a conversation.id to her, what do you think i should do? and her response was, the vote passed two years ago, it passed again on a record vote this year. now the democrats control the senate. it will pass the senate. this investment will become the law of the land. his response was, so what should i do? her response was, free mandela and begin to negotiate a new south africa while you have leverage, because if this investment becomes the law of the united states, with cooperation around the world, you will have no leverage. and so he said, tell mr. dellums, that while this bill never became law, it hung over south africa like the sword of damocles. >> wow. well, california congressman, ron dellums, thank you very much for helping us understand this history on this night of all nights, sir. it's invaluable to have your perspective here. thank you so much. >> it's my honor, my friend. >> thank you. dan rather is going to join us next. we'll be right back. stay with us. >> at the end, the bloodletting s

. >> you look just like margaret thatcher. >> i tried to look like har get thatcher. this is parting gift. we're going to hang it over your fireplaces. >> we also have with us former treasury official and morning joe economic analyst steve rattner. >> i brought a present to go with that picture over the fireplace. >> can we open it now? >> you can open it right now. i know you love presents. >> it's a single shoe. >> if you like this, i'll get you one. >> can i open it for you, joe? i love presents. >> that's how you open presents? >> how she opens presents. >> what did you get? >> i have no idea. what is that? >> that's so good. that is so -- i need a camera. i need a camera. bring the camera over here. joe, you'll see this along with everybody else. >> can we clear this first? >> oh, my gosh. >> what in the world? >> that is awesome in a very weird, weird way. >> a very it is turning show has just been made more disturbing. that's just embarrassing. >> i want one. that is the greatest thing i've ever seen. >> joe, what is that shirt under your pajamas? >> that's it

in margaret thatcher, the authorized biography volume one, charles mohr, a reporter for the telegraph recounts the late british prime minister's personal life and early career. in my promise land, the triumph and tragedy of his rope, senior correspondent for arrests this paper presents the history of. margaret mellon, a professor of international history at university of oxford recalls the events that led to world war one in europe and the war that ended piece, the road to 1914. in lean n, women, work, and the will to lead, cheryl sandberg, the chief operating officer at facebook gives her thoughts on women and. for an extended list and links to various other publications, 2013 novel looks elections visit booktv.org website. >> you're watching book tv. next, elizabeth brown recalls confederate general robert e. lee's surrender to the ulysses s. grant-led union forces appomattox, virginia on april april 1865. this is about 45 minutes. [applause] >> thank you so much for that very, very kind introduction. is a pleasure to be here. robert e. lee surrendered to u.s. grain april 9, for mos

thatcher and i sat down and explained what president regan and i felt were the key elements. and he said that sounds like the internationalization of 2/3rds of the earth's surface. and you can tell the president i am with him. it isn't solving the problems. yes, sandy -- >> i had read your last boboo boboo book "known and unknown" and couldn't help but think when you set out to do this book tour, what did mrs. rumsfeld say? >> here name is joyce. we have been married since 1954. if it were a little earlier in the evening i would tell you how many years that has been. [laughter] >> but i don't want to gus and be wrong. but what she says to me and don, avoid being resentful of the press. they have their jobs and you have your job. i take that advice about the half of the time. >> you have been at so many different levels of the government including secretary of defense, when you were there you know all of the interworkings of how the government worked. in regard to benghazi what is timeline, should the president know, and did he know and he is saying he didn't >> [laughter] >>

margaret thatcher it is there is no alternative. of course that's absurd. there was an alternative. we have to connect the dots to understand what is going on today. i read the chronicle. so what i've done is put together a montage of the murder of public sector, which is going on everyday. in fact all of the public sector is in body shape. public libraries, parks from the municipal to the national level. our character is among the worst in the world. the new deal deals with things in a different way. when i was going to school, california school's were the best. now they are among the worst with the new budget cuts. of course, my university is being privatized. all of the higher education is being privatized. all through the uc system. how do you run a modern state with tax cuts? we resort to desperate, back last november, we were asked to vote to make four indian casinos in san diego county pony up money. i thought this was a joke. they voted to do it. now, the governor proposes to borrow against future revenues. how did they deal with these social problems when the economic probl

. >> you can see george bush and margaret thatcher, rock obama candidacy is you sending them all off? >> the pen is mightier than the sword i say. >> here is a cover that you did. think big mr. president and also something on the debate. where do you come up with the concept of drawing like this quick. >> i've done 140 covers for the economy seemed about 4,000 cartoons, so there is a little different process for those. the cover i'm working with the editors because they believe the story of the day they often call me on a monday and say we think we are doing something like this. and then when we sign off i have 36 hours to complete the whole project. when i do my political cartoons that iit is more like a column e it's my own idea on a story of the week ended the ninth coming in with the idea and i will present it to them. one of the things about being a political cartoonist, which i would like to think is different than all of my other journalistic colleagues is that i had to cover local cartoons, local and international. the world is my oyster. so keeping up with everything is the h

margaret thatcher went so far as to call mandela a terrorist. but both voted. there was enough public momentum in fave of blocking trade to south africa. there was enough in favor of it that the u.s. congress passed the comprehensive anti-apartheid act. it blocked the importing of most south african goods and president reagan was vehemently against it. >> mr. reagan on friday vetoed a bill that imposes economic sanctions on south africa. it limits investment and bans imports of, coal, steel and agricultural elements. >> president reagan's veto was not sustained. it was overridden, including by many of his own party. and anti-apartheid leaders credit that with bringing about the pressure and the isolation that was necessary to eventually humble the apartheid regime, to humble the ruling south african government and bring them to the negotiations that eventually freed nelson mandela and brought him into the apartheid system. the fight here to do that was nothing in comparison to the fight in south africa, but politically it was a fight here. joining me is a forme

>> it has to be margaret thatcher. incredibly influential, not just in the u.k.t obviously in the united states. her influence was felt through administration, through many republican politicians. her dialogue and being will be a part of politics for decades to come. >> i would say that about ed koch, the mayor of new york. how am i doing? he changed the way that politics are played and he kept going into his 80's. >> what was the memorable quote of 2013? >> i'm all about the pope. when he said, who are we to judge? when he said that the catholic church has to be more about what is wrong with people and being more kind, i think he was speaking to gay people. >> one man said let's just hope this does not turn out to be a third world experience. he was right. it turned out to be a third world experience for many americans and obamacare has been a disaster. as what is been the funniest thing? >> the continuing consternation over "duck dynasty." i think it says volumes where we are as a society. >> if by funny you mean ridiculous, i think toronto mayor rob ford who e

walk through, as you pointed out earlier, and the british having such a great relationship, and thatcherith reagan resisted so long, and then the clerk said what do i do as the sanctions was moving so quickly in the united states finally, and she said you have to maintain your leverage and get ahead of it and release him from prison and do it now before you lose your leverage, so thatcher pushed the final inch to quickly release mandela from prison, announcing it the day before. but you point out also before the transition in south africa. south africa still has the zuma regime, and then we see from brazil, cancelled the meeting here in united states, and she learned how much spying had been taking place against brazil, and she was furious and made an issue of it at the g-20, and cancelled the state visit, which was quite a declaration in diplomatic circles. they have a lot of peace making to form with brazil as well, so that could be a sidebar conversation. south africa, as it was saying under zuma has not lived up to its real potential. it certainly has in terms of racial harmony. look

prince andrew and margaret thatcher both visited the area and said it was unbelievable. >> it's unbelievable to go and see it to believe it. >> that's where i feel the most sorry for people. >> reporter: late in the tkpwaeu most of the victim's fad families remained throughout the site. to remain there with the wreckage after invest guy tors have depleted most of their work. they'll be in here well into their christmas. doug james. >>> a week later investigators came to one major conclusion. it was a bomb that brought down pan am flight 23. on december 29, 1988, richard gladstone reported on the beginning of a meticulous investigation. >>> in a field outside of locker why they started pieces. chunks of the nose comb and the cob turned around not enough for a call. the second investigation moved into the second week little changed by the option that said they are a dog. but the news that fragments of a pal lot has given new focus for the hunt for clues. search teams have been combing grounds already well gone over. in hopes of finding something that could tell the experts what kind of baggage

thatcher and britain would not break from that system. america barely broke, so that was a high anticipation on how he would respond. he walked into the room at the back of the hall in cape town and said, freedom fighter, i was calling for god. he had been watching the campaigns on television, very current, very up to date, and was just warm, and in addition to the speech he gave, it must have been that he knew every name in the room and he came out with his feet on the ground. it was one of the biggest moments in his life. >> tom, you interviewed him right after he had been released. we have a portion of that. i want to show that and have you reflect on it. >> what did you most want to see in the outside world all those years that you were in prison? >> a host of things. i can't even count them. the very question of being outside and being able to do what you like, to see the changes that have taken place, the changes that we have seen on television, we have listened to, you know, on the radio. even though they are not the basic changes

then margaret thatcher sent lord carington down to meet with him. that committee of esteemed persons that ended up completing the negotiations and i think it was one of the finest hours of the commonwealth. >> yeah. >> and the u.s. congress. >> people had to be talked -- >> the congress had to override a vote toe. >> it was a long fight coming >> even thatcher was opposed initially and turned around, too. let's bring in ambassador joseph into the conversation. you were ambassador from '95 to '99 i believe. that was a critical time there. what are your thoughts back at that time, the witness to the signing of the constitution, just such a historic day in that country. >> well, i was you was first an activist and i ended up being a diplomat but you make reference to the signing of the constitution. i was in sharpeville when nelson mandela signed the constitution. i was sitting right behind former president de klerk and wondering what he was thinking. but as far as my own thoughts, i was of thinking about how many times we used the slogan "remember sha

another country's affairs and resisted sanctions as did the british leader at the time margaret thatcher. something had to change. the global anti-apartheid movement was gaining traction. black communities were in full revolt. under pressure, he resigned. in february of 1990 in the face of violence, he announced the start of negotiations that would end apartheid. days later nelson mandela walked out of pruchbison a free man. >> i stand here before you not as a prophet, but as a humble servant for the people. >> in subsequent years,they worked to ensure blacks and whites could live in a new south africa. for their efforts, they were awarded the nobel peace prize. a year later he became south africa's first democratically elected president. >> it's time for the healing of the wounds. a society in which all south africans both black and white will be able to walk tall in a rainbow nation at peace with itself and the world. >> as president, mandela worked to combat illiteracy and poverty. local elections were held and improvements were made. he served just one-year term and stepped down. thr

ronald ragan and mar rat thatcher did everything they could to make sure that he was not a freeman. >> it is valuable to take a trip back in time to get fit someone who saw it through younger person's eyes. poll sixes refused to welcome him to the city. stage add boycott known as the quiet riot, and natasha joins us live from miami beach with more on that. john, some people consider is this a very dark chapter, not only in the history of miami beach, and miami, but the entire south florida region. that's because half a dozen leaders on top of the governor snubbed him. now, you have to remember on a night like tonight, what their thoughts were more than 20 years later. we would have loved to interview them, but they refused to speak with us. we did speak with a prom minute liter. who put an end to what he calls the nonsenses. the city of miami beach gave the key to the city to a movie character called robo cop, but that year refused to give a key to the city to one of the most inspiring leaders in world history. when i became mayor, the whole thing seemed juvenile to me, that they refu

margaret thatcher's response was, the dellums bill passed on a voice vote two years ago. just recently on a record vote. the democrats now control the senate. it will pass the senate. it will become law. he said, then what should i do. her response was, free mandela and begin to negotiate a new south africa while you have leverage, because that divestment bill calls for global cooperation and you will have no leverage. whether he's right or wrong, history is history, and he said that while that bill never became law, it hung over south africa like the sword of damocles. >> well said. thank you so much ron dellums and bill keller. we'll be right back after this. like a milk-bone biscuit. ♪ say it with milk-bone. ♪ stacy's mom has got it goin' on ♪ ♪ stacy's mom has got it goin' on ♪ ♪ stacy's mom has got it goin' on ♪ [ male announcer ] the beautifully practical and practically beautiful cadillac srx. get the best offers of the season now. lease this 2014 srx for around $349 a month. during the season's best event from cadillac. ♪ if every u.s. home replaced one light bulb

thatcher wasn't a bad leader but have they shown us the way? should we privatize the way they did?i hear what you say. united kingdom is smaller than the size of oregon. >> perfect example for us but they are doing well. >> here is the deal. get the government out of the way of the post office. the post office wants to open up shop, the store front in shopping malls or drugstores. you know, also you are right about the union costs for the benefits. the is a big thing. they are privatizing in europe, canada, asia, new zealand, japan. >> sabrina, let's do what they are doing? >> yeah. i agree. one of the problems, of course, is the post office tried to trim personnel and cut back on the hours. but they are limited in their ability to mod earnize based on congress. unlike the private marketpce if you fail to adapt, you will go out of business. we have the company that is sort of sputtering along, e institution. we should either get government out of the way so they can do what they want to do. >> steve, quickly. aren't politics in favor of this? isn't this something both sides of the

reagan, thatcher, pope john paul ii launched economic prosperity to end godless communism which was the ultimate state power. we're going to take a much closer look at the key economics and ethics of what the pope said. i'm larry kudlow. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this store knows how to handle a saturday crowd. ♪ [ male announcer ] the parking lot helps by letting us know who's coming. the carts keep everyone on the right track. the power tools introduce themselves. all the bits and bulbs keep themselves stocked. and the doors even handle the checkout so we can work on that thing that's stuck in the thing. [ female announcer ] today, cisco is connecting the internet of everything. so everyone goes home happy. hoo-hoo...hoo-hoo. hoo-hoo hoo. sir... i'll get it together i promise... heeheehee. jimmy: ronny, how happy are folks who save hundreds of dollars switching to geico? ronny:i'd say happier than the pillsbury doughboy on his way to a baking convention. get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. >>> welcome back to "the kudlow report."

thatcher and britain would not break from that system. america barely broke, so that was a high anticipation on how he would respond. he walked into the room at the back of the hall in capetown and said, freedom fighter, i was calling for god. he had been watching the campaigns on television, very current, very up to date, and was just warm, and in addition to the speech he gave, it must have been that he knew every name in the room and he came out with his feet on the ground. it was one of the biggest moments in his life. >> tom, you interviewed him right after he had been released. we have a portion of that. i want to show that and have you reflect on it. >> what did you most want to see in the outside world all those years that you were in prison? >> a host of things. i can't even count them. the very question of being outside and being able to do what you like, to see the changes that have taken place, the changes that we have seen on television, we have listened to, you know, on the radio. even though they are not the basic changes t