we have had discussions with both labor, the afl-cio, seiu, business, other business groups, and while we have been negotiating these principles, they have been sitting down talking to one another. it would be best from all points of view this business and labor could agree on a future flow proposal. obviously, we would have to agree with it, too. that would be helpful. according to both donahue and trumka, they are making a lot of progress, much more in 2009, and in 2007, when john and senator kennedy worked on it. >> [inaudible] you are talking about importing tens of millions of those skilled laborers. what would you say to working- class americans who worry that their wages and jobs will be lost -- >> it is in our principle that we will tie future float to employment. if there are jobs available floor -- four americans to take, that will be one of the major components of future flow. if there are jobs that there are not americans for, then, obviously, it will be much easier for people to come in. an example, farm work. americans, by and large, wherever it is, americans do not do th

. >> what do you think about the fact that we have already heard from two groups, the afl-cio and the heritage foundation. they are already reacting to the details of this deal and say they do not approve. what do you think the headlines will be tomorrow? you know, whether its on twitter or wherever, from all the various special interest groups in reaction to this? >> well, the afl is kind of confronting a reality in washington that they don't have the power that they used to. and one of the pieces of evidence for that is in the capital gains and the dividends part of this, which was not a big part of the conversation. but a major concession that republicans got was that dividends were going to go up to 39.6% tomorrow. as part of this deal, instead, they will be taxed to 20%. that is a huge cut for the extremely wealthy. and it is only the kind of thing that congress could do if there was no organized labor opposing it. because you have the investment class on one side, and nobody kind of making the case for higher taxes on dividends. so the afl doesn't like thchis. but there is not g

they're not wanting to your voice to my guess, within the administration or within the afl-cio, and wed that the most americans would agree that we could avoid a lot of the pitfalls, of the problems that we have had in the past about immigration polies if we would bring in the front line troops to do the jobs, not the managers are the political appointees to do what they're told or see what they're told, but the people that actually do the jobs, give some insights our lawmakers when they sit down to make these laws. we think that is critically important and hope to see that happen quick. lori: are you encouraged to discourage it with your from washington? >> i would have to say that i am a little bit on this tourist side. we're absolutely open to hearing what any of our lawmakers our political leaders have to put on the table, but, you know, for us just as one example, when i read to the bipartisan comittee framework, there was no mention of immigration and customs enforcement whatsoever. you really have to look hard to see any kind of mention on the interior enforcement of our laws, y

in the last hour, richard trumka of the afl-cio tweeted the following -- we can't set the stage for further destabilizing hostage-taking from -- in the form of another debt ceiling crisis and another sequester crisis. joining me now from capitol hill by phone is nbc's kelly o'donnell. kelly, tell what's the latest is that you're hearing on this deal. >> this is a major breaking development, milissa. we have learned from multiple sources who have been directly involved in negotiations that they have reach and agreement in principle between the white house and senate leaders. of course, this will still need to be voted on by members in both the senate and house. but this is a very significant breakthrough three hours before the fiscal cliff deadline. what i am told is that there is still the possibility that democrats when they meet with the police department may express some of their concerns. but expectation is that the vice president will be here in about ten minutes to meet with democrats to lay out the plan. this has been negotiated between the republican leader mitch mcconnell, the pres

the afl is really left. >> exactly. look at what's happening. the afl-cioence for years ons issue of illegal immigration embraced it 6789 what's the result of that? more illegal immigration, lower wages for unskilled labor, and for lower education levels, and they brought in their -- and seeking more members, they brought in competition for their members. they got away with it and continued to do so. >> so how do you think they respond now to try and stay alive because, you know, now it's a last gaffe type situation. >> well, trmuka is already out on all sorts of nonsense. until the afl-cio has a relationship to the well being of its membership that is direct, that is measurable, quantity, they are going to continue to slide. the only place where there's going to be a slower erosion of union memberships, not power, but union membership, will be in public employees. the local governments, of course, the highest employers of union workers because, primarily the teachers unions, but we're seeing the federal government have to roll back. i mean, it's happening

richard trunka of the afl-cio, one of the folks who came out and said he doesn't like the deal. urging democrats to turn this deal down. at this point, based on the reporting coming out of that meeting that vice president biden had with the senate democratic congress, it doesn't appear a lot have been swayed by liberal democrats who believe this is not good enough. the people on the right will see this as a compromise to some extent as well because they moved the needle on taxes and because they are dealing with the sequester now and reporting this in this dual way. both through new revenues and cuts. not for the president for how he might see them deal with. this will be another 11th hour knock down, dragout fight two months from now. we'll certainly be prepared for that. again, room for compromise within the sequester and the other point that he brought up, by officials who were close to this talk on the democratic side is that they have left themselves some room for negotiations. in other words, there are other tax revenues that they can get in the future. through scaling bac

the of the afl-cio like it, but rank-and-file workers do not want amnesty. every single industry -- >> why? >> i'll give you a chance to response. >> thanks you. gerri: basic economical history. when you bring in labored to an industry where u.s. citizens are unemployed wages go down because you increase the supply of labor. it has happened everywhere which is why rank-and-file workers he is going on. they seek wages dropping in meat packing, and industry were used to be able to us name and -- feed your family. now wages are gng down in real dollars. gerri: and marshall, you say? >> but -- gerri: their is a difference between gdp of what you to come in your pocket to my friend. >> absolutely, but the reason why 65 percent of americans support this is because it is the only realistic solution on the table. chris called for self deportation, but look where that got mitt romney. this is not an issue that is -- we of the the -- we have undocumented people living here and spend 18 billion per year and immigration enforcement. gerri: and strangely obama is spendin

he said, because the afl-cio opposed it. hat was constantly at the forefront of opposing that form of immigration reform was a senator from illinois named barack obama. he carried their water on blocking this pathway to citizenship when he was in the senate. the afl-cio put out a press release yesterday talking about the importance of not compromising on citizenship. so the unions themselves -- there are a lot of cross-currents here. the unions themselves don't want an influx of new workers in america, do they? >> no, they don't. that's one of the reasons this organizing for action, jim messina's full-time job is trying to get the union's in line, but it's going to be hard. it's hard on the democratic side. we're not even talking about the difficulty on the republican side getting it through the house. this is a senate democratic problem. >> so the republicans in the house, in effect, could stare at harry reid's senate and say okay, immigration reform, that's great. you guys pass it. >> say bring it. >> yeah, bring it. gun co

the afl-cio and all the unions will be there. and i think the vast majority of the american people are going to be there. what we are talking about, ed, and you made this point, we're not talking about financial issues. we're talking about ideology. what the republicans want to do is destroy the social safety net that has existed in this country since the 1930s. they just -- they want to give more tax breaks to people who don't need it and decimate the programs that working families and the middle class desperately depend upon. this is a fight for the soul of america. it is a fight for the soul of the democratic party. >> the conservative editorial page of "the wall street journal" thinks the debt ceiling threat is a bluff. they wrote today, "you can't take a hostage you aren't prepared to shoot." do you think republicans are willing to shoot the hostage in this negotiation? >> well, what i think is that the employers of many of our republican colleagues, wall street, and the big money interests know absolutely that if the united

in 2007 when we tried to do immigration reford, he folded like a cheap suit when the afl-cio allowed temporary workers and president obama put a sunset on the provision and he destroyed the bill for business. i don't need a lecture from barack obama about bipartisanship. he was never very good at it in the senate. if you speak tomorrow about immigration reform, i hope you don't suggest you're going to take a pathway to citizenship and delink it from the border. and if you do, you know what will happen, 20 million illegal immigrants years from now. >> greta: in 2009 i listened to the speech and at the time a democratic house and democratic senate. why would he not take time for immigration reform. because you can't move multiple bills through congress and eat and chew gum at the same time or wasn't his heart in it. >> in 2008 he promised immigration reform in the first year of his presidency and led off with obamacare and that took all the oxygen out of the room. >> greta: he can't do both? >> by the time obamacare was done, took the whole year and the place was divided and bitter. and

the afl-cio and all the unions will be there. and i think the vast majority of the american people are going to be there. what we are talking about, ed, and you made this point, we're not talking about financial issues. we're talking about ideology. what the republicans want to do is destroy the social safety net that has existed in this country since the 1930s. they just -- they want to give more tax breaks to people who don't need it and decimate the programs that working families and the middle class desperately depend upon. this is a fight for the soul of america. it is a fight for the soul of the democratic party. >> the conservative editorial page of "the wall street journal" thinks the debt ceiling threat is a bluff. they wrote today, "you can't take a hostage you aren't prepared to shoot." do you think republicans are willing to shoot the hostage in this negotiation? >> well, what i think is that the employers of many of our republican colleagues, wall street, and the big money interests know absolutely that if the united

the afl-cio and all the unions will be there. and i think the vast majority of the american people are going to be there. what we are talking about, ed, and you made this point, we're not talking about financial issues. we're talking about ideology. what the republicans want to do is destroy the social safety net that has existed in this country since the 1930s. they just -- they want to give more tax breaks to people who don't need it and decimate the programs that working families and the middle class desperately depend upon. this is a fight for the soul of america. it is a fight for the soul of the democratic party. >> the conservative editorial page of "the wall street journal" thinks the debt ceiling threat is a bluff. they wrote today, "you can't take a hostage you aren't prepared to shoot." do you think republicans are willing to shoot the hostage in this negotiation? >> well, what i think is that the employers of many of our republican colleagues, wall street, and the big money interests know absolutely that if the united

progressive and varied as the naacp, common cause, the sierra club, greenpeace, jobs with justice and the afl-cio. along with an affiliated campaign called fix the senate now, they are working hard to change the filibuster rules. take a look at their ad. >> as climate change threatens the world we leave to our children and good u.s. jobs move overseas, time in the senate has expired, as women earn less for men in the same jobs, time in the senate ticks by. it ticks by with no results because the system is broken. but we can fix it and make the senate work for us again. if our senators vote to end the silent filibuster and for common sense reforms. >> they have only hours to do so. unless the senate reforms the filibuster on tuesday, the minority wrecking crew remains in charge for the next two years. larry cohen, welcome. >> great being with you. >> if the democrats were back in the minority, would you be making this fight to reform the filibuster that you're making now? >> absolutely. because we believe that what a democracy means is that the american people are entitled to get discussion, debat

victims of a system that's rigged by mitt romney's backers, so they-- >> richard trumka head of the afl-cios for the union left that works hand and glove with the obama administration, they're not interested in us paying lower prices, they're not interested in us being employed. they're interested in richard trumka making $300,000 a year and meeting at the white house. >> and unions not getting their way-- >> and white house punched even in the face and the threat to public sector unions, threat to public safety and violence is real. >> let's go to number four, this has to do with some of these groups out there that have paid enormous amounts of money, and it's now institutionallized and you discuss this in great detail in the book and that's that they monitor every word of every conservative and try to target them to silence them and you put david brocka at number two. >> you know this, david brock deeply involved with the white house, meets with media matters and they monitor everything conservatives say and launch astroturf boycotts. what they did with rush limbaugh. they create an astro

last thing, this is a deal that was opposed by the afl-cio and also imposed by the heritage action, the very conservative group that has a very influential scorecard here on capitol hill. you see both far left, far right, move on.org, they did not like this. some folks say both extremes don't like it. we will see what effect that has on members moving forward. >> we are just learning that speaker boehner voted for this as well as paul ryan voted for this. eric cantor did not vote for it. he voted against it. >> while. >> that is what we understand right now. what is the next cep, and when will the president get that? if you want to comment on what we just learned about the votes from speaker boehner and paul ryan. the budget grew roll from the right voting for it and. cantor's saying no. >> i think it's fairly extraordinary. there has been a lot of talk, a lot has been written and speculated upon about eric kanter and the rivalry between eric kanter and john banner. folks happen to think -- i am getting an update here. let me update you. this is a press release just sent out by the pres

about tomorrow line, this is pressure on the left from the afl-cio. pressure on the right from the heritage foundation who is calling this a kick the can down the road deal. there is pressure from both sides but you as retiring republican senator kay bailey hutchinson said, i don't love the deal but it is a compromise and it is probably a pretty fair deal. bret? >> bret: mike, frankly as we look live there on the the screen as the ohio clock position just outside the senate chamber, the spot where senate republicans come to speak to reporters and the reporters are mulling around there waiting for that democratic caucus meeting to finish up, but the bottom line here is that they are going to have to deal with this all again in just a few weeks as republicans are setting up, mike, to really fight the spending cut battle using the debt ceiling increase as their backstop. using the debt ceiling increase as leverage come february and it looks like that we are setting up for what could be another standoff in washington just a few weeks into the new year. >>

in a statement, the afl-cio said -- republican lawmakers in virginia are sparking outrage for pushing through a controversial gerrymandering bill while one of its members was away. on monday, a federal holiday in the day of president obama's inauguration, the virginia state approved a measure to redraw the state's electoral map in a way that could turn the current 20- 20 split with democrats into a decisive republican majority. the bill was approved by one vote because democratic state senator henry marsh was out of state attending the inauguration in washington. a recent internal report by the republican state leadership committee hosted the party maintained its house majority by gerrymandering congressional districts in traditionally democratic states. and those are some of the headlines. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are broadcasting live from the sundance film festival in park city, utah. this week marks the 40th anniversary of roe v wade, the landmark supreme court ruling that established the right to abortion. a new pol

joining me is chief economist to the afl-cio. . >> thank you for having me. >> you're in "the new york times" article that discusses the workforce and unions and one of the individuals quoted, a professor at clark university and he says it's a time for unions to stop being clever about excuses for why membership is declining and it is time to figure out how to devise appeals to the workers out there. why do you believe these union numbers are dropping so significantly? >> well, remember, the key to being in the survey is to have a job. and we have a very weak labor market. the big part of that drop came in the public sector and this is the weakest part of the labor market during the recovery. we're losing teachers. this is important not to the union members only but to the nation as a whole because it means that as we have gone through this recovery, we have not been able to make the proper investment to make sure that the kids are educated for the future. and the private sector drop comes in construction and again we know that ne

even rich trumka the evidence the afl-cio head of organized labor it's not a good fiscal cliff deal if it gives more tax cuts to the 2% and sets the stage for more hostage taking. he is referring to the debt ceiling debate that's coming early next year. goes on to tweet republican's fiscal cliff double think fiscal crisis demands cuts in service, no investment in jobs but allows more tax cuts for richest americans. if and when this comes up for votes in the house and senate, it's unclear how many democrats especially on the left will support this, or buck the president, basically. bret? >> bret: ed henry live in the white house. thank you. stocks started the week up. possibly encouraged early in the day about talk of this possible deal. the dow finished ahead 166. the s&p 500 was up 24. the nasdaq gained 59 another deal not fiscal cliff related. the senate home security committee blasted the state department for failures leading to the deadly september 11th attack on the u.s. mission in benghazi, libya. this comes on the heels of another scathing report by an independent state departme

president of the afl-cio richard trumka just tweeted this. it's not a good fiscal cliff deal if it give morse tax cuts to 2% and sets the stage for, in his words, quote, hostage-taking. he is voicing the concern that because the taxes only apply or go up on those making $400,000 or more and $450,000 if you're a couple, that essentially it's not hitting enough people. and he is voicing the concern that there might be deep cuts. so there is some pressure coming from the left for democrats to not necessarily accept the deal that is on the table. now, we saw president obama come out earlier today and talk about the fact that look, this isn't a perfect deal. this represents compromise on all sides. part of the reason you saw president obama come out today is not only to pressure republicans, but also to pressure democrats to get the deal done before this midnight deadline that is now so close and that is fast approaching. so there is some opposition that is being voiced from the left. could this impact the decision of some senate democrats? we'll h

traditionally labor has been opposed to immigration but just as recently as 2009, the afl-cio togetherwith change to win came together and said okay, we are officially on board, here's our plan to provide for not just immigration but comprehensive immigration reform. so the president is going to be able to come to the table with labor, obviously latinos and progressive folks to push for immigration reform. there's going to be some debate among democrats about how long folks are going to have to wait to get citizenship, what fines they're going to have to pay, but the agreement is there for the legal status. >> you bring up labor. over the weekend, i had a chance to attend the voto latino event and secretary of labor hilda solis was there along with rosario dawson and maria kumar, who organized the event. it was an amazing event, not only for the fact that when these women unified their voices, it's powerful, but the fact that the room went completely silent and in d.c., as you know, going to these events a lot of times, the rooms don't get the hush, they don't get the quiet and attenti

but it's something that unions including the afl/cio has argued would institutionallize, basically, a second class work force that could be exploited by employers. with that idea, how do you win union support? >> well, look. you've got a bipartisan group of senators who've put this out as a starting point. the president of the united states is going to provide his views in las vegas tomorrow. this is for the first time you've got people on both sides of the aisle who are beginning the debate. beginning the conversation. with the aim of getting to a solution. this is not going to be perfect. immigration is a very difficult problem to solve. nobody's going to be entirely happy at the end of the day. but if we can arrive at a bipartisan solution and make it as good as possible, it would be a heck of a lot better than the broken and dysfunctional system that we have now. so we should bring all the stakeholders in, have this dialogue, move forward and hope that house republicans for once and for all will stand up to their own tea party intolerant base and vote for compromise and solutions.

the afl-cio service employees unions, the teachers unions, and the national labor relations board whichd with his democratic allies, pro labor, driving the principal agency in charge of relations between business and labor. >> megyn: they've tried to make it as easy as possible nlrb for a company to union, a work force to unionize. why is it? because the companies are hurting and therefore, they dent feel -- the unions don't feel like they could extract what they want from the company, so why bother? >> well, the unions are extracting what they can and it has risen in point of fact. and the extraction takes place really between the union member, the man or woman, working as a member of the union sending his or her dues, which are just about $700 a year, on average. that is the extraction that matters. >> megyn: they get benefits for the member and the union shops tend to get better pay. >> and they get better pay and a political direction that folks who are not unionized don't have to worry about. >> megyn: because thee spend the money on politics. >> this symbiotic relationship between

we don't need to have a separate movement and the afl-cio rejected it and rejected that offer. andy young tells a story in the introduction to the book called the closing door by gary and he says you know, after king was assassinated, the johnson administration came with affirmative action, and at the time, as you may have read and not remember, the civil rights movement, martin luther king turned to full employment and poor people's campaign as the principal demand, and the johnson administration rather than coming up with full employment we spotted with affirmative action. you won't see look at the eyes on the prize or marching in the street demanding affirmative action. they were demanding full employment and trying to reach out to whites, latinos, asians, native americans, that was the vision. and she said when affirmative action happened, we knew it would only help the upper-middle-class within the black community, a very small percentage of african-americans, kids who want to go to these elite colleges, you know, that affirmative action was targeted or would benefit from.

she is, however, randy weingarten, now the head of the federation of teachers which is a part of the afl-ciohour, and topic number one, the six-figure payout. we follow microsoft on this program, i own some of that stuff and we talked to an executive who had the ear of bill gates, he says microsoft chief steve ballmer has to go. also coming up, big news i should say from two names you know, google and ibm, we're following both of them at the opening bell. may, everybody, cheer up, we're closing in on a record high for the dow jones industrial average. look, if you have copd like me, you know it can be hard to breathe, and how that feels. copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva helps control my copd symptoms by keeping my airways open for 24 hours. plus, it reduces copd flare-ups. spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that does both. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. thes

rich trumka, the president of the afl-cio put out a written statement saying we strongly disagree with the court's reasoning and decision and fully expect this radical decision to be reversed and that other courts addressing this issue will uphold the president's recess appointment authority. in the meantime, the appointees to the nlrb remain in their jobs and the nlrb remains open for business, although we just spoke a short time ago to a conservative critic of the nlrb who is telling us they believe if you combine this appeals court decision with the fact there was a recent decision in a steel case suggesting the nlrb has to have three members at one time to have a quorum to have any decisions at all, they think if you couple these two cases together it will call into questions a whole bunch of decisions made by this labor relations board in recent months, megyn. >> megyn: they' havthey've clip president obama's wings thought he had the power and the court telling no, there are limits what you can do. and the senate has to be in recess not gone for a day or two. >> the white house sh

run-up to his first try back in 198 when -- 1988 when can dats wanted a young candidate after the reagan years. afl-cio. a required stop for democrats. >> i've been intention r mentioned as a potential presidential candidate and i've been occasionally written up. and i began to think, well, my lord, it must be true. i must be really moving. i've got a blue suit and a redge mentalal stripe -- regimental stripe tie and launched out on this campaign to be president. chris: biden's candor pails in comparison to bill clinton when he first surfaced in that same year. clinton had a big spotlight, keynote at the convention when they nominated mike dukakis and clinton bombed and had to go on the carson show for damage control. but he still wasn't shy about his huge ambition. >> you are governor of arkansas until 1991? >> that's right. >> yeah. where were you looking beyond that politically or are you? >> depends on how i do on the show tonight. [applause] >> would you entertain a running for higher office? president? >> i would like to do it sometime. we decided that we would wait. until my daughter was old eno

the first person of color to be elected to one of the afl-cio's highest officers, linda is a trail januarylazer -- trailblazer who will continue to fight for the progressive values we all believe in. thank you so much for your service to the democratic party, to the brothers and sisters of the labor movement and to women all across this country who stand on your shoulders. thank you so much, linda. [applause] alex lamont has served three term as secretary of the democratic national committee. [cheers and applause] >> alice has been an unyielding advocate for democratic party values throughout her career. alice's distinguished leadership as secretary of our party has been unparalleled. she's transformed our party for generations. alice has been an incredible role model for women leading the historic effort to put geraldine ferraro on the democratic ticket and fighting for women's rights, participating in every national consequence since 9 -- convince since 1974. alice has paveed the way to lead our party forward, and i can tell you on a personal note that i know i would not be standing at t

the statement, afl-cio president richard trumka praised her tenure saying -- president obama is reportedlyo nominate his chief of staff, jack lew, to replace timothy geithner at the treasury department for obama's second term jack lew widner geithner in heading treasury after a stint on wall street, working at the financial giant citicorp between 2006 and 2010. the u.n. arab league envoy to syria has issued his strongest words to date against the regime of syrian president bashar al- assad. speaking to bbc news, lakhdar brahimi appeared to endorse al- assad's departure from government as part of any political solution in syria. >> what people are saying, it is a little bit too long. so the change has to be real. i think president assad could for what hislead an people want, rather than resisting it. >> afghan president karzai is in the u.s. for talks with president obama on u.s. troops levels in afghanistan after the withdrawal deadline of 2014. obama administration officials have recently floated troop numbers ranging from zero to 20,000 after combat operations formally come to an end. ka

. >> eric: "c," washington, d.c., made the capital. or afl-cio they are both the united states flag of illinois. who was sworn in, global warming that you like to talk about. who is sworn in with the warmest temperature at the inauguration? >> greg: ronald reagan. >> eric: bill clinton. abraham lincoln. >> greg: 55-degrees. >> eric: coldest? it wasn't al gore. >> greg: i have a trivia question for you. what inauguration was conducted in cantonese? the next one. think about it, america. think about it. >> eric: 45. two more. beyonce sang what song? anybody? >> kimberly: today? >> eric: kelly clarkson sang what song? >> bob: god bless america. >> dana: i don't know what it was. >> eric: country tiz of thee. best song was the brooklyn tabernacle choir sang? >> dana: battle hymn of the republic. that was my favorite. >> kimberly: i am on dana's team. >> eric: my favorite question of the day. the inauguration lunchen, coveted invite, 200 people are invited. which items on the screen listed where on that menu? lobster tails? yes. yes. grilled bison? >>

host: we have a tweet from the head of the afl-cio. : that from richard trumka ahead of last night's vote, illustrating some distress among the progressive groups. guest: obama has not address the debt ceiling. this was another thing he was going to do. it.not when --he didn't win you have done the revenue and change the estate tax. that is done. you are going into the negotiations without many avenues. there will not negotiate on the debt ceiling. sherrod brown said they were going with tit. whitehouse said the same thing earlier. obama said they want an end to the high jinks. host: what is your take on president obama's role in negotiating so far? guest: i think he has a strong impulse to reach a deal. his priorities to reaching a deal is surpassing his desire to stand up for progressive principles. to protect parts of the government from harmful cuts that would hurt a lot of regular americans. host: republicans saw his news conference as unusual. john mccain said he should not know if he should be mad or sad. guest: the white house a

seiu, the service employees union, as is the afl-cio. believe that union money is not on par with sheldon adelson, who reportedly gave $150 million to republican causes in the 2012 election. unions disclose the vast bulk of their spending and lobbying to the labor department. host: what about george soros? guest: george soros' is not part of that paid his money is not disclosed the way the labor unions' are. so there is a disparity in that. the unions are a huge political force, and they are absolutely part of this equation. now, whether this group talks about labor union money it remains to be seen, because labor unions are a founding element of this. but i don't think any discussion about money in politics is complete without talking about labor. labor is really a huge funding source for the democratic party. host: explain what you meant by "massive new liberal plan." what is massive about it? guest: the largest groups on the progressive side, and it is expected to grow as big as 50 by the end of the winter. we have never seen a coalit