the bush administration only had one attack in yemen. he increased that enormously. on national security, he let the nsa do whatever they wanted. that is completely opposite from the way he campaigned. i think that is disappointing to many of his supporters. host: and he is waiting in pennsylvania on the line for democrats. caller: good morning. i was just going to say about the same thing. i voted for president obama and the first term. in the second term, i -- the same thing. my comment was going to be that after the first term, he -- the media was supposed to be the watchdog. ignorede more or less the scandal and stuff that has gone on in this residency. -- i have great respect for your speaker. i was wondering what his thoughts were. ignoring fox and those places. what are his thoughts on the media and what they are ignoring? -- what are papers his thoughts on how the press is covering the root of all of the needs of what the press needs to do to cover things in this nsa controversy. thank you. guest: i agree 100%. the media has been very weak. i have been very cr

many people think he should have replaced donald rumsfeld earlier in the bush administration when the war started going so badly if iraq. did he a great job. he's not a politician. but there is some disquiet that he revealed what happened in private conversations with the president in the inner council. put that aside. now he says hillary clinton in the run up to the 2008 presidential primaries was concerned about her votes and was vote not guilty a way that she didn't feel to make a political point. i guess that's damaging to hillary clinton. it doesn't raise to the level of a crime or anything like that. politicians are self-servingful politicians are ruthlessly pragmatic. >> so a lie is on the line where people are getting in there and saying people are going to die -- >> i don't in any way seek to minimize that. i think that it's really deplorable and who -- wasn't it john kerry who said famously in vietnam, who wants to be the last person to die in a losing cause? barak obama never believed in

when he ran for office he said the bush administration had violated the rule of law, i'm going to restore the rule of law. he has been pretty close to the bush administration in a lot of ways in taking broad actions, not recognizing clear limits on power. host: that probably shouldn't -- guest: that probably shouldn't be surprising. kings and presidents and the executive would try to use as much power as they could. we have to set limits. how do we do that? if information is secret, that cannot be done. that was especially troubling during the bush administration. i talked about the unitary executive. that was spelled out in secret office of legal counsel memos that people didn't even know about for years. how do we set limits on presidential power if we don't know about this? we cannot. host: some of the memos are included in the book, if you want to read the primary sources. guest: when obama took office, i hoped and a lot of people hoped that he would create -- he has relied on an argument called the state secret privilege, which is an argument recognized by the supreme court. i think

and at the end of the bush administration, the george w. bush administration, just before the economic crisis, it seemed like that could happen again. we had a deficit that was less than one percent of gdp, or just a little more than one percent of gdp. but of course the crisis happened and growth slowed, stopped, reversed and then of course more federal spending was needed and more federal spending took place. i think there's more than a choice between continuing on the path of today's liberal welfare state or austerity, which is what david stockman is suggesting. in fact, i think those two things are basically the same thing. they're just two sides of the same coin. austerity is what happens if we continue down that path. it becomes our only option. for now, we have another option and that is modernizing our governing institutions, liberating our economy from some of the burdens that it suffers from health care costs, from over-regulation and a few other things, and allowing for economic growth. reducing spending is an important part of th

. >> well, dana, what's interesting, as you'll remember from your final year or two of the bush administration, dealing with the end of the administration, where we use that dreaded phrase, small ball, where there's not a lot of new ideas, not a lot of major initiatives. you're kind of running out the

response to people who say that the cover up was just a cover up of the incompetence of the administration for not acting on. john. the bush administration was anything but incompetent they wanted war they got it they wanted to make billions for their corporate friends they did they wanted to expand executive power the did that is well they committed crime after crime after crime during their time in office and essentially remained throughout they were anything but incompetent as far as i'm concerned and you know i know bob graham is obviously outspoken about this saudi cover up but why do you think not more members of congress are putting their hands up an air and say no hold on i mean we have been higher form jose agenda and domestic policy based on this event john i mean this is a pretty shocking cover up going on. well you know you know as well as i do that many people in washington d.c. are essentially bought and paid for nine eleven has been used to scrape fully to do a number of things over the years. you know it's used to justify the warrantless wiretapping the the torture the drone attacks. to help the centrally t

they work for the bush administration. this may water down some of the impact of the report. >> as far as an effect on business, are there any you can spot right now? even though there is no binding legal impact, it could give more momentum both to companies that want to minimize, if they're forced to participate, in the nsa programs, and also to lawsuits, of legalcations vulnerability on carriers like verizon or at&t. it is worth noting at black of the computer association said today he thinks this report could be significant in terms of limiting records collections and creating more transparency going forward, if only because of the political power. sayingort is also internet companies in their efforts to get more disclosure

i'm actually more optimistic than richard i think boat parked his boat the rouhani administration the bush and obama administration are actually determined to settle the nuclear issue is part of going to be their legacy of their administrations so they have their eyes fixed the fixed on the prize of getting this nuclear issue is resolved so they will go all the way they can to get it so there will be opposition from both sides the iranian rightwing will offer to obviously object but i think they're marginalize they'll be obviously some opposition in congress but they'll be mostly grandstanding i think when it comes to the crunch most of the democratic congressman will not dare to read to go against their own democratic president and i call it the views of israel about this i think on the whole because the obama administration is very determined to get this through they will get it through richard i read your piece on the in these talks in the interim agreement i found it really quite fascinating and i must admit you went into a lot of technical details is it really more political will on b

the bush administration seemed to have made this massive strategic error almost unthinkingly, there is a report that a few months before the invasion, president bush met with three iraqi exiles and appeared unaware that iraq contained within it, sunnis and shiites, it was clear that bush did not even understand there was a difference between the two sects. others in the administration better informed were kwingsed that the shiia would be democrats. those of us who warned of these dangers at the time were dismissed as pessimists, keep in mind that the primary cause is not that the obama administration did not intervene in syria, it is that the bush administration did in iraq. let's get started. >> you have heard my take on what's behind the summer oil in the middle east. now let's turn to a panel of experts to get their take. richard haass is the commissioner on foreign relations. from 2004 to 2007, megan o. sullivan was deply national security advisor. and peter bergen is cnn's national security analyst and the director of the securities program at the new america foundation. when you

i've never made any bones about my personal belief i think that the obama administration's foreign policy wise is a step up from the bush administration but still very much lackluster performance there's no mystery that the bush administration that the obama sort of cabinet had disputes about politically about everything between the invasion of iraq surge everything else and i generally think that secretary gates was a really stand up individual who gave really really good critique inside and i think this book points out his general distaste of how the cabinet structure itself i think that secretary clinton and president obama definitely disputed with each other on foreign policy matters merely for politics because if you look at the two of them there's no doubt that obama and hillary simply wanted to win elections that is why that they voted the way they did that is why they've conducted their foreign policy the way it has never ever been in my opinion so sort of. segmented analysis about how the best way to proceed forward in the war on terror because you look at obama's but you look at obama wars by by bob woodward t

negotiations during the clinton administration that froze the plutonium program for eight years where we stop the north korean program but it was a difference of opinion beginning of the bush administration north korea with her cheating on that agreement and the bush administration pulled the plugs on the talk but as result they then moved ahead with the three nuclear tests and now declared themselves a nuclear weapons state. if we can solve the iran problem, if we can demonstrate that diplomacy can make a deal with the regime, that to change the regime's behavior rather than change the regime, that might have some benefit with the situation with north korea. it partial influences the north koreans, but more important influencing the partners around north korea, particularly china to assist in diplomatic efforts. >> we could go on all afternoon, i'm confident. actually chill will be here most of the afternoon. so what we will do is we will take a break now and joe will be outside signing books and reading you, and i'm sure would be happy to talk further with you. so if you would please, join me in thanking joe for his time and for visiting us in charlotte. >> thank you ver

. >> well, particularly in the bush administration. because i felt that we still had time to make the economic pressures work. and again, we were already in two wars, our militaries were stretched very thin, our military was exhausted. and so the idea of acting precipitously to go after the iranians or to enable the israelis to go after them, where we didn't know the consequences but could well lead to a major regional war. i felt it was too risky. >> let me ask you something about the book as i read it and your views. i look at all of those positions and it steams on the substance, you were very sympatico with president obama. on the substance, from what i can tell from reading what you say about the bush administration, you were much more unhappy, it seems to me pretty clear, you were skeptical about the iraq war, you were certainly skeptical and you write that about the freedom agenda, the idea of spreading democracy around the world. you seemed skeptical about the way afghanistan was handled in the years before you got there. and th

so iraq was just damned because of the mistakes of the bush administration going in. llujah was the most terrible thing. but there was a surge, america doubled down, put more troops in, it worked. joined with the sunni tribesmen, the awakening, it worked. and now, because they pulled out and because of the vacuum in syria, which has given rise to al qaeda again, the whole thing is going to hell. >> do you put the blame on syria and america, what about malaki? >> when the united states pulled out, they said we are leave thing country on the road to a stable democracy. everybody new malaki was not somebody who was democratic and he's proved it over and over again. yes, the lion's share of the blame lies with malaki, because he so alienated the sunni tribes would rather stand with al qaeda. >> ryan crocker said the price of disengagement is -- has greater consequences than intervention. >> correct. >> this is exactly what you're saying. >> david, what do you think? >> we have to engage. there's almost a hangover from iraq. we need to move past iraq. engaging doesn't mean

the bush administration seemed to have made this massive strategic error almost unthinkingly. there is a report that a few months before the invasion, president bush met with three iraqi exiles and appeared unaware that iraq contained within it sunnis and shias and arab leader confirmed to me in his meetings with the president it was clear that bush did not even understand there was a difference between the two sects. others in the administration better informed, were convinced that the shia would be pluralless and democrats. those of us who warned of these dangers at the time, were dismissed as pessimists. so if we're trying to understand why we see a sunni/shia battle unfolding across the middle east, keep in mind, that the primary cause is not that the obama administration did not intervene in syria, it is that the bush administration did in iraq. let's get started. >> you've heard my take on what's behind the turmoil in the middle east now let's turn to a panel of experts. rashid khalidi is a professor of modern arab studies at columbia university, author of "brokers of dec

the bush administration only had one attack in yemen. he increased that enormously. on national security, he let the nsa do whatever they wanted. that is completely

when he ran for office he said the bush administration had violated the rule of law, i'm going to restore rule of law. he has been pretty close to the bush administration in a lot of ways in taking broad actions, not recognizing clear limits on power. host: that probably shouldn't -- guest: that probably shouldn't be surprising. kings and presidents and the executive would try to use as much power as they could. we have to set limits. how do we do that? if information is secret, that cannot be done. that was especially troubling during the bush administration. i talked about the unitary executive. that was spelled out in secret office of legal counsel memos that people didn't even know about for years. how do we set limits on presidential power if we don't know about this? we cannot. host: some of the memos are included in the book, if you want to read the primary sources. guest: when obama took office, i hoped and a lot of people hoped that he would create -- he has relied on an argument called the state secret privilege, which is an argument recognized by the supreme court. i think it i

the seabed how damaging is that the administration and they really should come as a shock. sorry i've never dated he knows about my presumably biking to cuba administrations and the wise step up from the bush administration but i'm still very much lackluster performance. there's no mystery that the bush admin is that the obama cabinet had disputes about politically about everything between the invasion of iraq surge everything else and i generally think that secretary gates was released in the individual who did really really good critique inside and i think that all book points out his general distaste of how the cabin structure itself. i hate that secretary clinton and then the pres obama. definitely dispute with each other on policy matters nearly for politics because of the look of the two of them there's no doubt that obama and hillary simply wanted to win elections. that is why did they voted the way they did that is why it conducted there for casa which is never ever been in my opinion some sort of pop acts the statement data analysis about how best way to proceed forward in the war on terror because the job on the eve of the obama war spy but bob woodward that the administration is

>> well, i think in both the end of the bush administration and throughout the entire obama administration, there's been an unwillingness to face the harsh reality that the war on terror that we saw really begin most visibly for americans on september 11th, 2001, isn't a war we can turn off at our pleasure. this is a war being waged against us. i think we made a huge mistake in withdrawing from iraq. i think we're about to make another huge mistake in withdrawing from afghanistan. people say, oh, but americans are war weary, and the gallup poll says this, and the other poll says that. public opinion polls and foreign affairs are utterly irrelevant when you have presidents who exercise leadership, who explain to the american people what our obligations are, what the challenges we have to face around the world are, what our allies need. and what is required of us. we just haven't seen that over a period of years, and i think that explains war weariness, but it's correctable. >> if the american people are not behind a president and the policies when it deals with having troops in raeg and fae

a lot of these were started when you were with the bush administration. >> i think he did a courageous thing today. not sure i agree with every aspect of his assertions. but basically he protected the ability for a president to have this tool to make important decisions about protecting america. i do not see it as a potential for abuse. if you store the data in the right place, you make sure that people who have access to the data have access only for that reason of protecting the country. i don't want it to be used to spy on american citizens. i do think it's important that the president have the ability to understand the nature of communication within the terrorist networks and have that tool available so that he can prevent an attack. >> glenn, what about that? >> andy card of all people saying that there's really no reason to worry about abuse, given that the administration of which he was a part, got caught breaking the law, which the "new york times" won a pulitzer prize for disclosing, his administration was spying on the television calls of americans without the warrants requir

and so what they are doing is going back to the same old economic policies of the bush administrationhat got us in this mess in the beginning. >> when you talk about this, though, and you're hitting this on a lot of different fronts about what it means to be impoverished in this country. i do want to remind people you were once on food stamps, but this divide is no more evident than this issue of the unemployment benefits that you spoke of that's now being debated in the senate and we have house majority leader john boehner opposing an extension that is not paid for. now president johnson said, "this will not be a short, easy struggle, but the richest nation on earth can afford to win it." what will yours and other members of congress and the message be over the next coming days, because there are some people, congresswoman, who say the president has been in office for five years, he needs to take ownership of the economy, and it's not just a kickback to the eight years under president bush. >> well, when you look at what has taken place, i think the facts speak for themselves. the pr

currently being detained a good mo who have already been cleared for release by both the bush and the obama administrations these men are not and never were terrorists or criminals of any sort they've committed no crimes against the united states or anybody else in many cases they were swept up in the bush administration was offering a five thousand dollars bounty for members of al qaeda and because five thousand dollars is more than a decade's income in afghanistan a lot of innocent people got sold the goal of the american soldiers. shot here on the air is also one of the detainees who is being force fed because he's on a hunger strike to protest is illegal detention. i mean told reprieve that i was strapped to the bed for twenty four hours except to use the toilet the force feeding tube was in twenty four hours a day we would be fed for thirty to forty minutes each time with unsure cans two cans three times a day some of the prisoners became zombies as if they were already dead i dropped weight to one hundred thirty pounds i told the doctors i want to die peacefully i want no intervention but they refuse

the administration, if we can. you were in washington during at least the first term of george w. bush. >> yeah. >> was the media or "the new york times" misled by the burks when -- bush administration when it came to the iraq war? >> yes, we were. >> were we fooled? >> we were, i think, not diligent enough. i don't know if we were purposefully fooled. i think there was a terrible echo chamber where unreliable iraqi defectors were speaking both to members of the media and to intelligence officials and high officials in the bush administration, and that an echo effect took hold where like all the information was coming from one set of bad sources. it seems that multiple sources were confirming the information, and that created like a kind of perfect storm. i'm not excusing it at all. i'm not excusing "the times'" running some very seriously flawed stories. >> judy miller? >> she was not alone. it was not only judy miller. there were, ir think, 10 or 12 stories that we ended up in an editor's note saying we had, you know, concerns about. so i'm not, you know, minimizing that at all. you

but when the bush administration gave up trying to make the case these guys were dangerous, when thateased, it was a long way into them having spent years at guantanamo and when the judge said they were going to be released, it seemed like this long, strange odyssey of chinese guys at this prison finally seemed like this was going to come to an end. but then congress freaked out. fz. >> speaker, it is my understa understanding that president obama's decision regarding the release into the u.s. the number of uighur detainees held at guantanamo bay since 2002, these terrorists would not be held in prisons, but would be released in your neighborhoods. they should not be released into the united states. when members realize who these people are -- >> they're random chinese guys at guantanamo by mistake. frank wolf decided that the uighurs was the hill he was going to die on. that was the cause he was going to lie down in front of the machinery and stop the world on. who cared that even the bush administration said these guys aren't terrorists and they aren't dangerous. >> you know, holder

they are unhappy with the bush -- the obama administration, just as they were unhappy for the bush administration for very different reasons. it strikes me that all this discussion of segmenting the internet, watching out whether you want to buy american products because the intelligence agencies may have built in back doors that that could have a longer-term impact on us than whatever the diplomatic outflows. >> i think the snowden affair illustrates something very important about residencies. you do not control the world. you do not control events. in this case, resident obama found his first year of his second term, and maybe the entire four years of the second term have been to a certain degree hijacked i a very young contract employee from booze out of the decided to spill the beans on american espionage activities around the world. there is not much that the president can do to pull it back. it is all out there, and more of it is coming out all the time. he can try to present his point of view of who edward snowden is, that he is a thief, that he is maybe a treaty that -- traitor, but edwar

the new york times to do its job in your opinion? >> absolutely it does. >> so let's go back in administration if we can. you were in washington during at least the first term of george w. bush. >> yeah. >> was the media or the new york times misled by the bush administration when it came to the iraq war? >> yes, we were, there's no doubt about that. >> were we fooled? >> we were i think not diligent enough. i don't know if we were purposefully fooled. i think that there was a terrible echo chamber where unreliable iraqi defectors were speaking both to members of the media, and to intelligence officials and high officials in the bush administration, and that an echo effect took hold. >> let me dive right into the news then and talk a little bit about the nsa, and edward snowden. >> uh-huh. >> daniel ellisberg was quoted recently as saying that edward snowden was his hero. do you see snowden as a hero or a traitor? >> i view him as i did julian a sang as a very good source of worthwhile information. >> how do you make those decisions? >> we make those decisions trying to apply a common sense balancing test where we respectfully listen to concerns of the u.s. government that p

banning the techniques that were in some of the programs that dick cheney and president bush had authorized. >> host: since the end of the bush administrationhow many times have detainees in the bushes got together? does not not very many. they have had a couple of occasions and then when it opened. this is probably about april. and besides that they had a private dinner at one point. but otherwise they don't get to talk that often i think that the relationship is respectful, but it's not friendly. i asked them about this during one of the interviews and he said that we were never fighting. it was a professional relationship. we didn't socialize together at camp david. they didn't have dinner at the mansion very often. it is a professional relationship. >> host: what about condoleezza rice? >> guest: early system is very different. she had personal as well as professional. check it out diversely on sunday nights. they would go to camp david for social occasions on the weekend. she would work out what the with the president, talk sports with the president. so when she elevated to secretary of state, she not only have that personal relationsh

the scandal in the bush years of the nsa there was a scheme in place that the bush administration disregarded and ignored it and both parties got together and discussed it. what we need are very strong safeguards and transparencies. most important to stop having this all be done behind a wall of secrets. if we the public know what they are doing and that is why it is imperative that mr. snowden came forward and shining a light on this. >> in fact, on twitter asking are you anticipating the progress. there is going to be a lot of em fi -- empty rhetoric. very little substance. no actual recourse for violations. no substantiative reform. >> you know -- >> go ahead. >> no, go ahead. >> you know, i was going to say, there are a couple of changes that he's proposing that are decent ones, like putting an advocate in the court and no longer is the government the only side showing up when it is time to argue whether or not toish issue a warrant. the his interest when there is a controversy the approach is pretending you are changing things and not actually to change it. it is a really big mistake to

the first two and a half years of the obama administration, and frankly i suspect that the same kind of sharp elbowed politicos were present at the beginning of the bush administration, they were pretty much gone by the time i got there. domestic politics, what i describe in the book, domestic politics were a factor in every discussion of major foreign policy issues, and the thing i give president obama credit for is on several of these issues, like the surge in afghanistan, he went against the political advice of all of his white house political advisers and the vice president. >> you -- but it is interesting, as i read the differences that you have between them here, stylistically, how bush you felt was more comfortable around the military, where you didn't get the same sense that president obama was comfortable around the military. >> the way i describe it in the book, he was always respectful, always gave military leaders as much time as they wanted. listened carefully, was never nasty to them. but i always had the feeling with him, first of all that he was suspicious of their motives and second that time spent with them was an obligation rather t

the decision to open talks with the plo is a question that won't be answered until the bush administration domestically the success or failure of the reagan administration depends on who you talk to. liberals will point out in dismay that reagan cut millions of the dollars from programs. conservatives will point out that most of roosevelts new deal and johnson's great society remain intact. and nothing has been done about abortion reform or school prayer. despite the fact experts predict it will increase 10 fold in the next five years, aids is not dealt with. all the reagan appointees have shown strong conservative leanings throughout the years. there was one incident that proved at least for a while to be stronger than teflon. born of a humanitarian desire to free americans, a scheme was put together to take funds sales and funneling them. reagan was never able to convince congress or the american people that he was right about his support for the country. the iran contra affair caused the president's -- all told eventually more than 100 of his appointees were called to face some form of

the bush administration saw the same thing and this is historical. every second term president saw a challenge in the midterm election and their own party. clinton was the only one didn't so this because of the back lash. >> johnathon, take out your retainer and tell us what you think? >> this is a do nothing president so, i would go back beyond a year. that is the case for three years since the president's budget got voted down by the senate. nen- nothing. he's not won a significant vote in either house or the senate in that time either from the gun control legislation and his jobs bill in 2011 and immigration this year. he set a tone of partisanship and he hasn't overcome that. and the republicans don't want to work with him and democrats don't want to work with him because he is unpopular. >> these are the issues that the president said he would be tackling in the second term. global warming and gun control and same- sex marriage and immigration. how would you grade him thrus far on those topics? >> we are looking at a congress with nine percent a

and he was the friend and adviser in the clinton administration. but during the bush administration, he was arrested at dulles airport and later pled guilty and sentenced to 23 years in prison for supporting terrorism. it might be worth noting for someone in homeland security or - e state department that al amoudi convicted and supporting terrorism while his wife was here on a visa, had a child, who was an american citizen. a man named morsi, president of egypt, until he began to disregard the constitution of egypt to an extent that people rose up in egypt in numbers greater than anywhere in history f the world and demanded his ouster as the coptic pope has said, this isn't a cue, but the egyptian people rise understanding up. reporting in over twice the numbers that president morsi claims that voted for him to make him president. it appeared he was doing as one egyptian told me as the president who was elected in the gaza strip had done, once he had the election, he pulled all the power to himself and didn't need elections after that. there would never be anybody who

when you are traveling in europe have been diplomatic.c than they are unhappy with the bush -- the obama administration, just as they were unhappy for the bush administration for very different reasons. it strikes me that all this discussion of segmenting the internet, watching out whether you want to buy american products because the intelligence agencies may have built in back doors that that could have a longer-term impact on us than whatever the diplomatic outflows. think the snowden affair illustrates something very important about residencies. you do not control the world. you do not control events. in this case, resident obama found his first year of his second term, and maybe the entire four years of the second term have been to a certain young hijacked i a very contract employee from booze out of the decided to spill the beans on american espionage activities around the world. there is not much that the president can do to pull it back. it is all out there, and more of it is coming out all the time. he can try to present his point of view of who edward snowden is, that he is a thief, that he i

the bush administration only had one attack in yemen. he increased that enormously. on national security, he let the nsa do whatever they wanted. that is completely opposite from the way he campaigned. i think that is disappointing to many of his supporters. host: and he is waiting in pennsylvania on the line for democrats. caller: good morning. i was just going to say about the same thing. i voted for president obama and the first term. in the second term, i -- the same thing. my comment was going to be that after the first term, he -- the media was supposed to be the watchdog. ignorede more or less the scandal and stuff that has gone on in this residency. -- i have great respect for your speaker. i was wondering what his thoughts were. ignoring fox and those places. what are his thoughts on the media and what they are ignoring? -- what are papers his thoughts on how the press is covering the root of all of the needs of what the press needs to do to cover things in this nsa controversy. thank you. guest: i agree 100%. the media has been very weak. i have been very cr

profiling was banned under the bush administration in 2003, but with exceptions for national securityases and also with a more limited definition. critics say the exceptions have allowed for significant profiling of two key groups -- muslims in counterterrorism cases and latinos in immigration cases. it's unclear however if the new rules will undo the national security exemption. the supreme court heard arguments wednesday about the issue of buffer zones around abortion clinics. the case concerns a massachusetts law that creates a 35-foot protection area around a clinic's entrance , a distance that takes roughly seven seconds to walk. the law was enacted in 2007 following decades of intimidation, blockades and violence by anti-choice extremists, including a shooting rampage at two boston-area clinics that killed two workers in 1994. pro-choice advocates say the buffer zones are crucial to ensuring safe access to healthcare and guarding against harassment by anti-choice demonstrators who routinely gather outside clinics. the air force unit responsible for overseeing the country's nucle