even the acting c.i.a. nation's best torture journalist said it was false that torture played any help in finding osama bin laden. by depicting a false torture in one of the american greatest achievement in history. >> i think osama bin laden was found due to ingenious detective work. torture was mr. employed in the early years of the hunt. it doesn't mean it was the key but it was part of story. >> i differ from the guys. i don't blame kathryn bigelow. she's not a public servant. she's a filmmaker. i personally think she made a fantastic film. my criticism lies with the c.i.a. in that they have left "zero dark thirty" as basically the only public record that he have for the hunt in bin laden. now you have jose rodriguez, a proponent of enhanced interrogation techniques or torture saying what was portrayed in the film is not what we did if in the c.i.a. he's not there any more, a and i think it's time that the c.i.a. release everything that they gave kathryn bigelow. she gave the best film she could. we don

the c.i.a. ems to be buttressing what they're talking about, but we have a report that it's simply not true. marsha raddatz has more on this. >> documents released in the freedom of release question, now they're looking at those interaction to see whether the lawmakers had inappropriate classified information. >> he never asked for that material. 12,347 michael morrell called the film a dramaization saying that it creates the strong impression that the interrogation was key to finding bin-laden. that impression is false. >> cenk: that's the acting director of the c.i.a. saying that it was false but he did say that some information came from detainees subject to. and many think hey wait a minute we just did thousands of pages of reports. we looked at over 6 million pieces of paper on this issue and we did not find any evidence that interrogation led to--enhanced torture led to finding bin-laden. if you know something we don't c.i.a. you're supposed to legally share it with us, and what did you sha

he plays tony mendez as the c.i.a. agent. here it is roll type. >> they've hiding at the canadian ambassador's residence. fortunately we do not believe the iranians are aware the six escaped. >> so what we ride for this are bicycles. we identify back roads from the district. a couple rack lines through the mound tons to the crossing. >> cars are off the table because of the roadblocks. >> wait until the weather clears up and deliver the six provides them with maps to the turkish border. >> we have intelligence they can't ride bicycles we're prepared to send in somebody to teach them. >> you could just send in training wheels and meet them at the border with gatorade. >> it's 300 miles to the turkish border. they need a support team with tire pumps. >> we were asked to troubleshoot this. >> it's winter. you can't afford to wait around until spring for them it's nice to take a buying ride. the way out is the airport. we send thp this pass ports and he takes hem out on a commercial flight. >> rose: do you think this film under pl

at the time the interrogators and the c.i.a. didn't know who that was in particular so i would have to say the most important piece of information and i don't know how we obtained it exactly was connecting that from kuwait to a real person ahmed. that was really the key. so i think those who argue that the hunt for bin laden really gained traction when we attach that name to a person can argue i think fairly that from that point and including that point there was no torture involved. but the fact that we were interested in this ahmed came from a number of interviews that are actually fairly notorious. >> rose: peter same question. >> well look the senate intelligence committee has spent three years investigating this question. they've written a 6,000 page report which unfortunately has not been made public yet and they basically say that's not the case at all what mark bowden has just said. they said the critical information did not come from a coercive interrogation. both mark and you and i watching this program are disadvantage

at the time the interrogators and the c.i.a. didn't know who that was in particular so i would haveto say the most important piece of information, and i don't know how we obtained it exactly was connecting that from kuwait to a real person ahmed. that was really the key. so ihinkhose w argue that the hunt for bin laden really gained traction when we attach that name to a person can argue i think fairly that from that point and including that point there was no torture involved. but the fact that we were interested in this ahmed came from a number of interviews that are actually fairly notorious. >> rose: peter same question. >> well lok, t nate intelligen committ has spent the years investitinghis queson. they've written a 6,000 page report which unfortunately has not been made public yet and they basically say that's not the case at all what mark bowden has just said. they said the critical information did not come from a coercive interrogation. both mark and you and i watching this program are disadvantage here because obviousl

of the c.i.a. ing point issue i imagine it's someone else's problem. >> three months after the event -- two months after the event, where she didn't say a word. she is the head of the department. the ambassador worked for her. he didn't work for susan rice. we don't know what she knew about security. spinning a story afterwards. jay carney, how credulous they are about the story. carney, the highly politicized issue. not political if you ask the administration to explain what happened. what happened during the hours? what about the solution is that as a close advisor to the president on terrorism, what was the president engaged in, in the seven hours in what did brennan know? what did he tell the president? were orders >> i were they carried out? there is so much unknown here. i'm not surprised we have let go the only suspect. we know the leader of the attack was a certain, katala. seen a few days later in a coffee shop outside benghazi. he remains unmolested to benghazi today. the administration wa

he took himself out of the running for the c.i.a. job four years ago amid criticism for supporting so-called enhanced interrogations. when he ran the national counterterrorism center under president bush. brennan hassles defended rendition, the practice of sending terror suspects to other countries where they might be subject to torture. he said on the newshour in 2005. >> i think it's an absolutely vital tool. i have been intimately familiar with the cases of rendition that the u.s. government has been involved in. i can say without a doubt that it has been very successful as far as producing intelligence that has savedive >> woodruff: last year brennan spoke at length about another much-debated tool in the u.s. war on terror. using unmanned drones to kilterror suspects. >> there is nothing in international law that bans the use of remotely piloted aircraft for this purpose or that prohibits us from using lethal force against our enemies outside of an active battlefield. al qaeda has been left with just a handful of capable leaders a

some seniors want to know what the c.i.a. told the filmmakers. does the film reflect reality or mostly fiction? we tell you what we know directly ahead. ♪ ♪ >> eric: welcome back, everybody. "zero dark thirty" is critically acclaimed film. the story of the bin laden kill from planning to training to the head and chest of the world's most notorious terrorist. ♪ >> you'll never find him. he is unbeatable. >> eric: the film is no stranger to controversy. some liberal senators are up in arms over the opening scene where c.i.a. operatives interrogate khalid sheikh mohammed with waterboarding. they get their feathers ruffled up. >> bob: you have been pushing this line, not you alone at this table how waterboarding led to bin laden. two people, not just the liberal democrats, it's feinstein and john mccain read, actually read the c.i.a. documents and they say it's absolutely nothing, nothing to do with finding bin laden. >> jose rodriguez, number one veteran loved the film and called it entertaining. he said, "enhanced interrogation did, did --" >> bob:

the cover of norkts was about the c.i.a. gent going to prison for talking to a journalist about waterboarding. >> jon: you can waterboard we're call but the first rule of waterboard club. >> don't talk about it. >> jon: incredible. you should see it. "zero dark thirty". it's in the theaters now. and she's on broadway.

the c.i.a. he entity, they are the ones who are supposed to know the security situation on the ground. they are the ones who are supposed to predict something like this happening. you know, i take susan rice at her word that she was working with the best available information given to her by the intelligence community. the c.i.a. notwithstanding recent successes in taking out osama bin laden and alqaida leadership, let's not forget this is the same organization that failed to predict the delusion ofdissolution of the soviet union and failed to predict that half of mali would fall to islamists. we take for granted that the agency has sources on the ground and had adequate information there, but it appears that they didn't. >> cenk: but there was something else going on at that consolate. michael, do you know what it was? what was the c.i.a. doing there? >> i think there are two things. they were over looking the different militia groups that we supported in the intervention with libya. there was s

year later he denounced the c.i.a. interrogation. k the white house emphasized the latter statement from 2008. >> he made clear that he opposed the so-called enhanceed interrogation technique. two, the past four years john brennan served as this president's chief counterterrorism advisor. >> supporters say it saved lives and it laid the foundation of mapping the al-qaeda structure. at the least, they may accelerate the declassification and release of the senate report. >> bret: thank you. >> thousand of venezuelaps rallied outside on what was supposed to be inauguration. but he's receiving treat in the cuba so it was postponed. unemployment in greece is up 7 points in the last year. young people between 15 and 24 years old there are looking at a 56.6% jobless rate. she claims to be of native american heritage so why won't she put it in writing? and could the new american dollar contain silly signature? grapevine is next. [ male announcer ] some day, your life will flash before your eyes. make it worth watcng. introducing the 2013 lexu

confirmation hearings to be the director of the c.i.a. d about what the current, and the policy has been but what it will be in the future. if the drone policy is unsustainable what is the drone policy going to be? what will they be replaced with when we leave afghanistan? how do we fight al-qaeda if we pull back from drone six? there are questions what about we have been doing, which is secretive and replace it with. >> bret: some, charles, say the drone program is largely a program not about being aggressive after terrorists. >> it seems to me the choice of the zone policy, the content of the global warming, though he won't use the word, a way to keep the problem at bay. it does something, kills the leadership. slows them down. not capturing anybody or gathering intelligence as done for the decade before. a reasonable way to approach the problem if the way obama thinks. he wants to keep the world at bay. the size of the speech of the foreign affairs was negligible. there is nothing in it except for the error "peace in our time" which i a

the c.i.a. boss is the same as the old c.i.a. boss coming up next. [ male announcer ] the exclusive air suspension in the 2013 ram 1500. ♪ ♪ engineered to move heaven and earth. ♪ ♪ guts. glory. ram. the new ram 1500. motor trend's 2013 truck of the year. >> john: if the upcoming showdown of the chuck hagel nomination is the main event, then the underwhelming under car is john brennan as director of the c.i.a. brennan, a chief counter counterterrorism official is expected to easeily coast to the nomination. this despite to his role in the architect administration's every broadening ever unpopular drone warfare program. he's also the final filter on the kill list. he's the man who brings targets directly to president obama for an official sign off. maybe the partnership is not dead at all as long as it doesn't come with warning from high above with aircraft and minor civilian casualties. with us again is sam seder, joel rubin, and political reporter joe williams. i want to thank all of you for sticking around. john brennan has that

a 25-year veteran of the c.i.a. god knows what our national security demands. intelligence that provides policymakers with the facts, strong analytic insights and the keen understanding of a dynamic world. given his extensive experience and travel which is include, by the way, traveling through arabian peninsula where he camped with tribesmen in the desert john has an invaluable perspective on the forces, the history, the culture, the politics, the economics, the desire for human dig anyty driving so much of the changes in today's world. >> rose: joining me now for a conversation about the president's announcement, a look at his evolving foreign policy and national security policy, mark halperin of "time" magazine and washington david sanger of the "new york times." david, let me begin with you and talk about what does this -- these choices say about the president and how he sees the challenge of national security over the next four years? >>ell, charlie, i think that in the selection of john brennan, who, as you said, has been his counterterrorism chief and man

republican chuck hagel for secretary of against and john brennan for director of the c.i.a. both picks are criticized by both parties. decorated vietnam veteran and former nebraska senator hagel has made comments not forgotten and could lead to tough questioning and a long confirmation process. back in 2010 he called the troop surge in iraq a "mistake," drawing criticism great his party. today, president obama stands by his decision saying "chuck hagel is the leader our troops deserve identity noting the involvement with the v.a. and uso he would be the first of enlisted rank to serve as secretary of defense. one of the few secretary whose have been wounded in war. and the first vietnam veteran to lead the department. as i saw during our business together in afghanistan and iraq, in chuck hagel our troops see a decorated combat veteran of character and strength. >> hagel will replace panetta and president obama has nominated john brennan to replace embattleed general petraeus who was linked to enhanceed techniques for questioning, and was involved in the killing of osama bin

and the c.i.a. and the military could control it, i'm sure they would. it's a kind of give and take. the difficult thing is when -- from an artistic point of view, how much are you being koch miesed in terms of what you want to do and the story you want to tell, and the same on the other side, what was interesting with "frost-nixon" was that david famously had gone to the premier of a film he was a producer of the night before he did his first interview with nixon and was criticized for that. on the opening night in the west end of "frost-nixon," he was interviewing blare the next morning and -- blair the next morning and decided he wouldn't come to the premier last night because look at what happened last anytime. -- last time. he interviewed blair and managed to get out of blair an admission that the iraq war was a disaster. which nobody had got. you could say he learned something from last time and got what the he did better. there's an interesting give and take with the whole thing. >> so we heard this afternoon, this morning, rather, from a senior s

the white house. now it goes over to c.i.a. going to see lots of questions raised from the left about brennan as well as we see republicans raising questions about hagel. fellow republican senator but he supported a democrat in the last senate race. >> bret: do both of them get by. >> brennan will get a bye and hagel will be tough. >> i think they both get approved but what happened to women and some others from left. presidents get their people confirmed. >> hagel is definitely an open question and depend on what the white house offers chuck schumer. >> bret: next up, john boehner says president obama told him that washington doesn't have a spending program and he was getting tired of boehner saying it did. i have a cold, and i took nyquil, but i'm still stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth! >>. >>> the tax issue is fini

the c.i.a.etary of defense. what is your take on the president's mindset in naming two people that are controversial even for democrats? >> i imagine one of the things that they did is when you go through and you look, is you ask the president, is there anybody on your mind that you would like? maybe he gives awe few names. then you can go and look as a staff and say, let's see. does he fit the qualifications is there is there anything in the background that would disqualify him or embarrass the president? you go through that list. maybe you get to the oh, formerly registered as a republican, that's good. check that box. oh, war hero. check that box. without thinking through all the way that president obama in the second term had this great opportunity to announce a fresh, now, thoughtful national security team and it's been botched from the very beginning starting with susan rice. >> gretchen: i'm not surprised by this because there has been a lot of talk, and ted cruz, the new senator from tex

frequently what happened was people lied and what the c.i.a. in two very important cases is that they found bin laden's currier because the lies tipped them off that there was something more going on. that's a very shaky kind of basis chon they say torture worked. to say because they lied torture works. >> brown: mark bowden, what do you think. >> i've written a book on this subject so i can say with as mu certainty as almost anyone that the point that torture did not present the key information that led to bin laden. there was never a moment where someone coughed up a critical piece of information. the true story is a lot more complicated than that and i think it's reflected fairly well in the presentation in the film in that the early very repulsive and ultimately futile torture sequences are followed by one where they try different tactics with the detainee and he tells them a piece of information that is not directly relevant to what they're looking for and that i don't think they-- and it showed that this way in the film-- either they or t

frequently what happened was people lied and what the c.i.a. n two very important cases is that they found bin laden's currier because the lies tipped them off that there was something more going on. that's a very shaky kind of basis chon they say torture worked. to say because they lied torture works. >> brown: mark bowden what do you think. >> i've written a book on this subject so i can say with as much certainty as almost anyone that the point that torture did not present the key information that led to bin laden. there was never a moment where someone coughed up a critical piece of information. the true story is a lot more complicated than that and i think it's reflected fairly well in the presentation in the film in that the early very repulsive and ultimately futile torture sequences are followed by one where they try different tactics with the detainee and he tells them a piece of information that is not directly relevant to what they're looking for and that i don't think they-- and it showed that this way in the film-- either they or th

let's move on to john brennan he is now the new nominee for the c.i.a. de pro torture arguments in the past, and let me read you one thing he said on torture, mind you it's back in 2007. there have been a lot of information coming out of the procedures that the agency has in fact, used against the real hardcore terrorists. it has saved lives and let's not these are hardened terrorists who were involved in 911 9/11 and showed no remorse. hehe was opposed in 2009 that he know longer is opposed. what are your thoughts on that. >> i think his views have evolved. probably have mine as well. shortly after before 9/11 i would not have approved of torture. i gatherwe tend to think torture is productive and i gather in some cases it is, but i guess the use of mind-changing drugs that soften up people and pre- keep them unable to lie consistently and effectively. it's horrible. but in extreme circumstances let's say the life of your family, the lives of your kids wives, and you had a moment which to make a decision to use violence against someone to obtain facts th

brennan probably would have been the c.i.a. ur years ago if it hadn't been the who ha over the -- he withdrew his name in face of the criticism. obama made him a white house adviser instead. >> bill: what i thought was interesting is you had the two former head of defense soon to be former head of defense former head of the c.i.a., acting head of the c.i.a., both there and they were also -- they were both asked to speak and they both endorsed the nominees for the job that they had. which i thought -- added a lot of weight to the president's nominations. >> very much so. very much a preemptive strike having leon panetta and michael morrell who is the deputy director, endorse both of these nominations. president obama himself if you read his remarks carefully you'll see defenses to the things that may be raised against both of these guys. >> bill: he mentioned with chuck hagel without mentioning israel by name he recognizes the importance of america's alliances. >> exactly. >> bill: i thought leon panetta carried the day. i'm sure

three veterans of the c.i.a. who were directly involved in the c.i.a.ntion program and in the hunt for osama bin laden. we have the former director of the national security agency and director of the c.i.a. i got to know mike it 2006 when i was a speechwriter for president bush. i was asked to write the president's speech revealing the the interrogation program and mike was very kind to give me access to all the intelligence that program will introduce and introduced me to the men and women who conducted the interrogations, men and women who i grew to admire and respect and highway consider to be heroes. but he is not only one of the smartest people i know but one of the most compelling witnesses to the efficacy of the program. when he came in office in 2006 the program was suspend and he was not involved in the initial creation so he conducted an impartial assessment. he gathered the information and had to advise the president whether to restart it and based on that objective assessment he concluded he could not advise the president not to have an inte

some people argue that the c.i.a. moved into the white house actually. he obviously turned to john kerry. we've already talked about that. but someone who can implement diplomacy with a national reputation and lots of seasoning on the hill and obviously with chuck hagel, someone who helped launch him as a senator into the international arena, someone he likes. gwen: even though he's a republican. >> they've all had something in their background who contrarian. the republican who sided with democrats. the two war veterans, including kerry, who opposed the war, and brennan who has straddled both sides of the war. gwen: and served republican administrations, as well. if we have a president who we've established likes relationship politics, values people who have been with him from the beginning, how is he getting along these days with happened cars eye. >> how is he getting along with karzai? they have a cordial relationship but there's no great warmth. they're driven by their domestic constituencies to do the same thing. gwen: do you see that today? >> yes

the c.i.a. officer that revealed that there was torture 30 months in prison. >> the only person going to prison about the torture regime is the guy who blew the wrestle on the--who blew the whistle on torture. not the guys who performed the torture in what happened, president obama. i'm just getting started. it's go time. [ ♪ theme music ♪ ] >> cenk: all right well, in fontana, california, they have a really good idea. how about if we put high powered rifles right next to kids. >> their purchase of high caliber assault weapons by the fontana school district has parents up in arms. >> i think it's a bad idea about the mental health aspect. >> rifles like these from the cool.com website. they're $1,000 teach. school police chief said the purchase was a must to protect all 45 campuses. >> there is a place up in connecticut called newtown. there was a shooting up in northern california, there was a shooting in texas. do we wait until kids are killed before we take proactive action? >> cenk: how about

as was in the case this week with the defense department and c.i.a. and prior to that the state department, he will make announcements when he has made a decision. >> that would be press secretary 101, do not get out ahead of the president of the united states but all sources say jack lew will be named treasury-secretary. >> shep: what are they saying about the past clashes with lew and process in general? >> i talked to jeff sessions moments ago. he said that he is troubled by the jack lew selection because he feels like lew has been too close to the political people inside the white house. he has not been independent from politics. so he predicts it will be a tough confirmation process. another senator sounds more open-minded. >> i wasn't up here during that debate, he wasn't arrogant to me. i'll keep an open mind. with any treasury-secretary nominee my view is going to be looking to the substance. this is not a popularity contest. this is about fixing the problems that are affecting millions of americans. >> reporter: others said he has been difficu