so you still want to have kind of some definition the you can do that with the floor material, the cainetry, or floor plan so it they're visual. >> one of the things, i lived in japan many years ago, one thing they do is reflect the floor plan in the ceiling plan as the way they define the edges of many rooms. you'd see the ceiling change at the edge -- edge of the kitchen. we don't odo that as much in the united states. maybe we should. ok, do we have any comments or questions? yes, sir. >> is there still a magic triangle number? is that still in use? is it an outdated concept? >> it's known when you do a layout, connect the dots between the sink, refrigerator, and stove, and it should form a triangle. obviously there's a relationship in that they should be close and adjacent, but they shouldn't be too close, so you still need space around there. when you take your floor plan, you draw a point between the sink, the stove, and the refrigerator and it forms a triangle. >> why is you don't carry stuff to the other side of the room, dripping? >> it's an exercise to make sure you've got good ad