is supposed to flow through the banks and into the economy the real economy and you would see wage price inflation you'd have seen it years ago but the unfortunately the banks put on a centrally prophylactic around the real economy so that nothing can get out there's no ability for the central bank to inseminate the real economy with a quantitative easing release because of the prophylactic this been put in place by banks to banking terrace as i call them and therefore you have no wage increase whatsoever there's no growth not nine months not ever there's no economic babies that are being consummated as a result of quantitative easing because of this wall this put in place by the banks to take that money that's being printed by the central bank and that they give it back to the central bank and they just put it back to the central banker they make money on the money they've borrowed so it's a complete bastardisation upside down the zation of all that we consider holy in the room of economics and mathematics it's a repudiation of common sense and it's a tapeworm economy is example followe

"on the money," the economy, the economy. the economy. new focus on the numbers.to work, and later a rare interview, with amazon founder. and a billionaire that changed the way we shop. and they are helping high schoolers dream for the way they change the world. when they leave here, they want to, they want world peace. it's, you know, okay. we want to solve all those problems. >> here is the bottom line, i'm willing to work with republicans on reforming the tax code, as long as we use the money from transitioning to a separate tax system for a significant investment in creating middle class jobs. that's the deal. >> the president said he has a deal to create jobs in exchange for reforming business taxes. will it work? here for an analysis on the recent economic push is glenn thru is sh and tony flatto, gentlemen, good to see you, thank you for joining us. >> good to be here. >> so the president went to an amazon.com facility in tennessee this week, laying out a plan that he called a grand bargain. that would create jobs, particularly middle class jobs. proposing

finally on the economy, we believe the u.s. economy is gradually lifting as we move through the middle part of the year, but it is set to be held back by some important drags. the lift is coming partly from a fiscal drag, which we think will be fading in the second half of the year. it's coming partly from a global economy, which is being helped by europe's exit from recession. and we do believe even though the fed is tapering, that the impulses coming from monetary policy are positive. we can see the lift beginning in the manufacturing data. we see the lift also likely to show up in the capital spending and equipment space. the consumer, we think, is going to be on the sluggish side but not restrain the economy in a significant way. we're looking for a 2.5% growth rate in the next two quarters after having seen the economy grow at only a 1.4% pace over the last four quarters. >> that was bruce kasman, chief economist at jpmorgan chase. >>> executives at the japanese electronics giant soniy are rejecting what they see as a bad i

the u.s. and global economy. the one view is the stronger we are, then the better the global economy is, and therefore, we should do whatever it takes to get stronger, or regardless of what the economic realities are. that is one view. the other view is we are the issuance of the global currency issuer of the global currency. we provide a lot of public goods. we are in the middle of the global system. we hold it together. and therefore, when we implement policies, we need to be about the feedback loops through the rest of the world. what is happening today, to pick up on what john has said, when you look at the newspapers, the rest of the world finds it very difficult to navigate a world in which the u.s. is speeding the way it is. and the results of that is that the most powerful engine of growth in the last few years, the american world, is slowing down. and the reason why u.s. companies had been able to do well despite the sluggish economy in the u.s. is because they have been selling abroad. now the risk is we

the financial sector is back in order the real economy is not right and you. actually right there it's not a financial crisis per se there's kind of been a little bit of mr action the public was maybe sold a bill of goods because it's so complex how can the average person understand it i mean is that your understanding exactly because you know you start talking about the financial crisis you get these complex derivative instruments credit default swaps what are those collateralized debt it people have no idea what eyes glaze over exactly you say housing bubble that house that you live in that used to cost two hundred thousand and went up to four hundred now it's two hundred thousand to get people to understand that well in your book title your book is false prophets so let's talk about some of those problems and false prophets one of them is greenspan and we have a clip of him in front of congress in two thousand and eight and let's hear what he had to say. i made a mistake in presuming that the social interest of organizations specifically banks and others are

i am frustrated with the economy. there are several reasons but the one i am going to talk about is the congress. election their focus was supposed to be on jobs, but they continue to focus on the health care bill. not focusing on jobs. they is no reason why can't pass the infrastructure thign to get the economy going. the roads are falling apart, the bridges are falling down, so i would like them to focus on jobs. the other thing that really bothers me is the corporations. as we have said from you arerts, corporations making more money than ever before. they are not sharing their wealth appropriately with workers. the money is not going to the common man. that is evident in all of the reporting. over, as well as with the congress. the congress work -- the congress worries about their jobs first. the wall street journal has this to add on the figures yesterday, saying the number of americans working or looking for work fell by 37,000 in july. salt lake city, utah, independent line, good morning. caller: thank you for h

the change? it's going to be a stronger economy. the point in time we had the lowest was during the clinton administration, the boom yea.. that was the lowest point. when the economy starts to become more robust they're going to switch more to full time. you know you've seen these statistics that the overall trend in 2010 is the numbers are coming down for part-time workers. it's partly due to furloughs of government employees due to sequesters. >> susan, don't you think -- you're talking about robust recovery. i totally agree with you. don't you agree that weather by anecdote or raw numbers that obama care is slowing down this quote/unquote recovery? >> no. we're havg the same economic trends we've been seeing for two years. that's about lower demand. you cannot blame all ofthis on obama care. >> we're only blaming a part of it on obama care, trust me. >> but, tracy, if we hve more part-time workers, they have less to spend and the economy's not going to get going. and that's the problem. and so we're in this like purgatory forever

what does this say about the economy? joining us to talk about it is steve liesman and rick santelli. what's of youyour assessment? >> it's not gone down easily. we have been talking about this all day. it's right in the middle. i was hoping to go hope. it's 160 with a 7-4 and it's a complicated number. i think what you heard is instructed. he said the fed needs more data. >> rick, the bond market seems to suggest that they're not going to accept it any time soon, don't you think? >> i'm reading the bond market totally different. let's go to the wayback machine. last number was better than expected with positive provisions. today we're seeing the opposite. i have a sense that the bond market may be subcy dids and it may not be at its true value. i think it's behaving in a logical action. bad news brings rates down, good news brings rates up. the only difference is when they get done with these programs, i have a feeling you're going to keep behaving that way but you're going to scale up 40 basis points higher in the range.

>> well, they always hurt the economy. up, going back to the point that steve made, let's stipulate that he's right. the big difference then in the '90s the government spent a lot less as a percent of gdp. when you raise taxes you're taking it from an efficient source, the market, the consumer, and giving it, by definition, an inefficient source of spending, the government. go through their zillion programs they run, cost overruns, the government spends less efficiently than we do. here's the statistic everyone should know. since the recession started, median household income is down almost 10%. and even with all the stimulus it hasn't budged at all. unemployment has come down but median household income has flat lined at an historic low level. that's the reason can you take -- you can look at the increase in taxes, obama care, red tape, all that. government needs to get out of the way and let people keep more of their money. >> all those companies all got sales boosts when we had a temporary sales tax cut recently. you can

they helped to the economy. i quarrel with these temporary tax codes in 2008 it was a part of the stimulus to get the economy going. but everything i see is reducing the tax rates, reducing the lowest tax rates and we took the lowest tax rate from 15% to 10% to reduce the taxes on people across the board i think that was healthy and helped people out. the problem is we didn't control spending and it's gotten worse. >> he writes about the time he was serving as the treasury secretary from 2001 to 2005 in the first principle key to restoring america's prosperity. secretary taylor, you also write about what you called the nixon shock. what is that? >> amazingly in 1973 president nixon imposed wage and price controls on the entire economy so the readers of a market approach. and i think there was a shock. it wasn't expected and was a factor in the performance that really lasted throughout the 70's and it led to other problems that need monetary policy easily because they could say we don't have to worry got inflation

it's not more sugar, i just lost the capacity to run as fast. and this economy lost the capacity to grow as fast, so i think we need to readjust to that. >> they could be putting that money to work, but they're not. they're worried about what is around the corner. >> they're worried about policy uncertainty. the cost of obamaca care. >> it's not just that they're worried, it's the uncertainty thatkiller here. if you don't know about corporate tax reform -- the more the government and washington in general with clear the air about what policy will be, the easier it will be for business. >> let's talk about the markets. while all of this is going on the markets are hitting all-time highs. even as interest rates rose, can equities continue to rise as rates go higher? and can rates go higher? >> i think they can. what we saw in the spast tart w low interest rates, there's a positive correlation between interest rates and stock prices. if rates are going from 9% to 10%, that's a raging inflation problem. but we saw yes, this can happen, and i think that is happening,

the economy there is struggling. the interim leadership is now trying to stop it from unraveling altogether. egypt's finance minister outlined short-term plans to save the economy. >> and economy in distress. public debt exceeding $200 billion. a budget deficit at 14% of gdp. not to mention the rising number of unemployed people. the government says it has a plan. >> we are trying to activate the economy. we are trying to impose national discipline. finally, we are trying to do both of those in a way that achieves social justice to the extent possible. how can you be expansionary at the same time you do not want to have a budget deficit growing so fast? >> to stimulate the economy, you have to spend more. but with a budget deficit, greater spending would need to come from increasing taxes. an option the minister says he would not like to take. >> by bringing in funds from outside the country, seeking support, counting on friends who can provide us with something -- some injection of funds from the outside, by doing th

last three decades it's quadrupled in size relevant to the size of the rest of the economy here to discuss this and the nature of how financial bubbles are fueled and destroyed is dean baker he's the co-founder of the center for economic and policy research and also author of false prophets dean thank you for joining me please for a man so how did we get here in this fire economy over the last three decades well soused part of this long process of the u.s. we had this sort of golden era coming out of world war two where we had rapid productivity rapid wage growth for broadly shared prosperity which things were going right that sort of breaks down for a variety reason in the seventy's and then we get a very very different regime beginning in the eighty's and that's really these send and see if finance in over that period you've seen this enormous growth in the financial sector and i often focus on the very near zero investment banking securities and commodities trading sector that sector is basically quintupled relative to the size the economy as you noted and that's basical

do you personally believe the economy -- do you believe the personally believe the economy is as strongs what's represented by the indices. >> no. >> no, i don't think so either. that's how i feel, too, greg. >> let me add a point here. the fed is not looking primarily at the stock market as their signal about whether or not to move. >> so they say. >> they're looking at the labor market. the point is we've had progress. is it as much progress as anybody wants? no. but they are thinking a year or two from now when we are finished this process of tapering, where will the economy be, where we want it be? >> so seven years. it takes seven years, okay. >> rick. rick. what is more reflective of where we really are? is it 15,479, or is it 1.8? >> well, i think since they dissed the gd report and dissed jobs, i would say the two areas i would find most important in terms of barometers about the economy have fallen out of favor, because they don't march in the right direction. i personally think, yes, jobs is underperforming. i think the economy, as demonstrated i go gdp, is underperforming, bu

taylor, the economy has changed since the recession. many workers don't possess the necessary skills to meet the available job openings. are we looking at permanently higher unemployment for some time to come? >> i don't think we are. the problem with the unemployment rate remaining high with job growth hardly keeping up with the population could change. it depends very much on policy. to me, it is not so much second gear although i like the analogy. it is more this big heavyweight on the back of the car that is slowing the economy down. i think a lot of it is the policy. you could look back at previous expansions. deep recession in the early 80's, growth was five percent per year. it has been 2.2% in this recovery. it is dramatic. i think you could learn from history about what to do. >> you don't think we are going to remain in permanently higher unemployment? -- there are certainly eight certainly a danger we will. i think it largely depends on policy. one of the things that could lead us in this direction is complacency. the attitud

how do you see the economy and the markets in a general sense? >> guest: a general sense, it depends on a program of deregulation to unleash the new companies on the frontiers of the economy. the big companies are doing fine. they have the power to the fight government regulators and lawyers to negotiate their way through the mazes. it is almost impossible to have the initial public offering today. and all economic growth ultimately derives -- not all, but virtually all comes from entrepreneurial companies financed by venture-capital lists. and 21% of gdp even is attributable to companies supported by venture capitalists. 65 percent of market cap comes from companies that were launched by venture-capital lists. and so if you support ipo that may be good for the surviving company's, but it is bad for the future. >> host: we have been talking with george gilder. his 17th or so book, best-seller, "knowledge and power". this is book tv on c-span2. >> you're watching c-span2 with politics and public affairs weekdays featuring live coverage of the u.s.

>> yes, absolutely. >> lawyrry, what does that say about the economy? >> through no fault of their own, these kids try to gonto e job market from lemons, you make lemonade. move in with mom anddad. save, pay down the massive loans, then you can move out. it's not gootr the parents because they have to work a whole lot longer and it won't make room for others. >> to your point, brenda, so many first-time jobs are not pay. there's so many intern ships. everyone wants you to come work. they don't want to pay you. there's that angle as well. >> these people all have to try to get jobs. >> stronger family. >> all right. >> it's all about the family unit. >> and thanks to susan for joining us. >> thank you. appreciate it. >>> what's got these guys s heated and the name that could be on fire because of it. >> predictions and jonas is up. >> they could be a lot higher. this is good for the taiwan stock market. >> this is like "bulls & bears." gary, are you a bull or bear? i'm a ber. >> what about you? >> i like staples. i think it's up. >> bull or bear. >> bear.

let's talk more about how this may all play out in the real economy as we turn to the chairman of theresident's global development counsel. he is also the ceo of pimco. mohammed, what a pleasure to see you again, although one of these days i would like to talk to you about something that somebody isn't messing up in. think the economy is feeling okay to most people. we are buying houses, and going back to work, and congress is it. >> that's absolutely right. the economy is healing ali. not quickly, but it's healing j. and people are feeling better. but it needs extra help. it needs a little bit of a push. it needs, if you like, a tail wind. instead congress is giving us a headwind. so congress is slowing down a healing, and as a result it makes us more vulnerable and makes the individual consumer and most importantly companies feel less certain, and that's money. >> we spend a lot of time on this last year, where we really lived with this idea of debt ceiling debate and shutdown and fiscal cliff all year, and we know it had an impact on people's sense of confidence in the economy, but

is mismanaged by osborne and it bleeds into mismanagement of the general economy the general policies of the country at large if fosters all kinds of corrupt foreign policies and domestic policies everything is just like a jim jones in guyana they all gather together they all drink the kool-aid and they're all it's on suicide watch there's sixty million people in britain are being given the kool-aid of a real estate bubble and they're all going to suffer a massive crash which kind of darwin one of the famous citizens of the u.k. might say that's great because we're getting rid of the overpopulation of druids ok that would be doan's opinion but for others they might say that might not be ago. to run an economy so because all these voters are so leveraged they also as a result we get a combination of regulatory measures local stimulus plans subsidies to property lending a bias towards inflation that promote housing bubbles so of course this is obviously what we see in the u.k. in the us the economies are recovering because of the housing bust but bubble being reengineered in the us that

in the us the economies are recovering because of the housing bust but bubble not being reengineered in the us that i was just reading that how is house prices are up twelve and a half percent in the last year well let's put this in context any number you put on the house price appreciation that there is another number that's greater that is the increase in debt the g.d.p. in the u.k. we just reported that point six percent the amount of debt was triple that the growth in debt the amount of wages however is completely stagnant the amount of debt in the u.k. is now projected to double to over four trillion pounds in debt over the next three years so yes you can create a a little lesion of wealth by pumping a ponzi scheme is born is doing at the expense of taking the bank of england balance sheet and making it into a four to five trillion pound debt black hole so then we he's saying here that this alters government policy and bloomberg provides a headline showing exactly that american dream erased as home ownership an eighteen year low with ownership at sixty five percent and home valu

with violent crime on the rise, will the economy take the fall?s, just when you thought the nsa scandal couldn't get worse, now this. reports out the agency can snoop on three-quarters of all internet traffic. those being watched not just terror suspects. innocent miles per hours like you and me. then, a rare moment. hollywood heartthrobs making waves in a good way. what ashton kutchner said that has sarah palin and rush limbaugh singing his praises. "cashin' in" starts now. hi, everyone. i'm eric bolling. welcome to "cashin' in." the crew this week, wayne rogers, jonathan hoenig, katie and juan williams. australian chris lane was in oklahoma to have fun playing baseball at college. they gunned him down for fun. given the number of violent crime on the rise in the u.s., wayne, this is a credible, real threat to the economy. >> oh, yes, eric. for example, the ten most dangerous cities, poverty on the rise, unemployment on the rise. crime on the rise. when you have crime on the rise, you to do something in account of that. police tactic and things t

relative to the economy as you noted and that's basically because they're sort of calling the shots and that's really been a period where we've had a bubble driven economy let's talk about those bubbles we had a tech bubble we had a housing bubble maybe we're in a new bubble we don't know yet but how do bubbles form we'll the story that i would put is that if you go back to the earlier period we always said the feds are clamping down because they were worried about inflation so that meant they raised interest rates brought the economy to a halt we had recessions seventy four seventy five eighty eighty one for those reasons what happens later is we don't have the same sort of inflationary spiral because workers don't have the bargaining power so what you had will go back to the early ninety's you had you know a budget deficit the clinton ministration said will get the deficit stone and then we're going to rely on low interest rates to spark growth and then actually did happen but the main impact that low interest rates had in growth in that period was through the stock bubble low interes

cut government spending because we want the economy to grow. better things and liberty, too. >> john says if you have more government spending it will crowd out the research you are concerned about in the private sector. >> you can't even argue this. we know it's not true. you can laugh. i don't know how you dispute that. most of the cancer discovers, most of the cures you talk about are the direct result of the government participation participation -- >> and they wouldn't have occurred without government spending? >> i can't tell you what would have or wouldn't have happened. >> let me finish. >> i'm going to finish. we know that spending led to the cures. to suggest cutting it out -- >> i hear what you're saying. public/private partnership. nih research grants went out but they were the in there -- private sector was in there to give cures we need today. john is talking about the u.s. dollar. when you have a stronger u.s. dollar you have the manufacturers coming here to build plants and that creates jobs in the united states. they can report

let's get back to one of the biggest influences on how you feel on the economy. that is your home. the influential s&p, case schiller index is showing a decline on how fast home prices are rising. i want to explain that what means, and there's no better to do that than one of the men who's name is on that index. he is a best-selling author, and correctly predicted the housing market collapse. professor schiller thank you for being with us. i have tried as i often do to interpret the report. give me a grade. how did i do professor? >> well, pretty good. i think it's hard to interpret markets that are basically speculative. they don't tie up necessarily one to one with the confidence indexes. >> yeah, and there are many things at play. for some people it's a person matter. some people have been sort of waiting for mortgage rates to -- you know, they are trying to take advantage of low mortgage rates and find a buying opportunity. we have seen mortgage rates increasing since may. is that effecting some of the slowdown in the face of home sales. >> i think we had a re

temporary so differently can employment now and in the future be defined as mcdonnell ization of the us economy . to cross-talk mcdonnell ization i'm joined by austin peterson in washington he's the c.e.o. of stone gate and editor of the libertarian republic dot com and in new york we cross to eric draitser he is the founder of stop imperialism dot org all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it eric in new york do you want to term mcdonnell as ation of the economy you like it dislike it indifferent well the term is sort of something that is very recognizable particularly in the united states many of us remember in the one nine hundred eighty s. you know mcdonald's had become sort of emblematic of what low wage jobs were that the that the mcdonald's work was essentially the lowest one could possibly imagine of course this is a mythology but that was sort of implanted in the popular culture in the united states at that time and i think that recently we've seen symbols such as wal-mart sort of take over that mantle of the

the post knows newspapers. >> this is the future economy. ordering stuff over the web and getting it shipped. >> the largest employer in america, john, 40s, general motors, ford was number two. now it's walmart and amazon.com and mcdonalds. look at those guys. they're good jobs for kids coming out of school but you have grown people, retired people and others. it's turned into a service economy and the grade industrial productive nation exported its factories to china. >> walmart -- >> do they come and go, according to sales? >> they come and go. >> walmart would refute what you just said, in particular. there are many jobs in their structure and those can be good paying jobs but there's a conflict going on in the district of columbia, where the local council wants them to pay a living wage, not a minimum wage, and walmart is saying if they're made to do that, they're not going to come in at all. so the mayor is faced with a very difficult -- i suspect he will veto the council's resolution and the folks need the jobs and they're not in a posi

the knowledge in the economy really is comes from the supply. the goods and services we all create and trade with one another. as thomas pointed out all economic transactions are really transactions of knowledge. differential knowledge. each of us knows different things, and that's really what we're trading. the trerlists conceived in physic. you can't create more of it. and it's all the change in progress that we enjoy comes from the advance of knowledge and learning. and there's a lot in the book about the learning curve is really the foundation of economic progress. >> you talk abou the company qualcomm in "knowledge and power." why? >> qualcomm is the great company. it's really the foundation of this wireless bonanza cornucopia that we enjoy today. that really was launched by qualcomm. i was -- well, i was at qualcomm in the earliest period talking to andy and irwin jacobs and they introduced me to information theories. >> who is clod shannon? >> the founder of information theory and the teacher of irwin jacobs. founder of qualcomm. the quit

would be best for the u.s. economy a couple of ways you can dissipate, as always, on the phone. if you are a republican, the number is -- we are also on twitter and facebook. we posted the question earlier economic policies, immigration policies, best for the country. we want to talk about some of those before us became at your will. here is a post from francis's says, the bill is welfare for replace contractors to their middle east more money for securities, another way for the gop to fund corporate greed. rick said -- mark writes -- i want to also let you know ther on we will change topic later on to ask you about some of the things you would ask the president. is posting six vacation -- free vacation questions or president obama, and one deal with -- deals with immigration. we will have tomorrow's news conference live here on c-span and c-span radio. "would you issue a -- an executive order to provide relief to undocumented immigrants of the house is passed the bill. obama insisted during his first term they could n

it posits the idea that the economy is something real as if it were a person. at the democrats out to be doing if they wanted messaging that was in alike thatment with progressive economic policy is speaking about the economy like it is, which is a person-made machine. that sounds like language like it's on the right track, it's on the wrong track, it's veering out of control. this is what signals unconsciously to listeners and readers that the economy is something that we made and that ought to be working for us, and that's basically what i argue in my book "don't buy it." cenk: use do you think the right wing personifies the economy and makes sure we don't hurt its feelings, because they mean wall street and fortune 500 companies, giant multi-national corporations and hence want us to think what's good for those corporations and wall street is what's good for us, even though there's a disconnect. >> i absolutely think that there is what we would call a motonomy happening, where the market comes to be a stand in for the whole economy, but there's more than that

the economy overall is improving, which means there is less risk. you are seeing more stable 2% growth. dagen: what about the fixed income funds, have you seen them? it has kind of been a shock for many investors for short-term losses on article he treasury funds. >> when you look at fixed income as a whole, had to fix it down to what kind of fixed income you are. one that we have been talking about and continuing to see it in the bank loan product. those are not really focused on the duration sensitivity of interest rates. we do see the yield curve continuing, but the economy is improving. connell: good to see you. dagen: a number of part-time workers hitting a record 28.2 million in july, so president obama's health care law part of the blame? let's bring in a senior economic writer at the "wall street journal." good to see you. step back and look at this overall jobs picture, it is not great that it is not horrible. >> there is a big scandal in baseball right now with steroids. we are not growing the way we should be. i have been wrong on this, we

on on the other hand, having a just economy. we also want to redistribute in a fair way. >> this pension reform, two effects on the companies. you give on one hand, but you have taken much more. >> we leave the deficits. >> any company which is in deficits just -- [indiscernible] >> it is very honest. it is not enough. it is extraordinarily complicated. it is absolutely inefficient. each time you make a move in the right direction, you take it back. it is tricky, always being tricky. i put it there. >> many things, but not tricky. the government since the beginning wants to be balanced. >> september 2012, protecting by 12 billion. and then you invent the famous tax credits. after, you say, look. we are very pro-business. >> let's look at the big numbers here. the big picture of all of this. >> and perhaps which we give to our children. >> the new york times over the weekend, there was a piece there by the correspondent who just left. it said the french are justifiably proud of their social model. many french retire at 60 or young

private debt has got them down the housing bubble is bursting bursting berthing the economy is contracting us terry is biting on. and unemployment is rising but how is this possible when the dutch turn account is positive the government deficit is smaller and exports are doing well something does not add up we need to bring in stacy herbert to see what the frick is going on over there in the netherlands well max remember at the beginning of this financial crisis when it was and the economic crisis across europe and we needed to bail out greece and spain and italy and portugal and all these people were the profit get bad spending governments of the south well you know now the netherlands were always the one that were pushing the most posterity but it turns out private debt might matter more than government debt and the situation deflating housing bubble at heart of netherlands economic blues household spending has been falling for three straight years and it dropped again two point four percent year on year in the second quarter dragging the entire economy down with it so they just economy

the economy grew without being driven by credit growth. , we have seen a continual creep up pretty much in that debt ratio, and it is not just the u.s., it is across the western world. >> okay. take the point, the question is what does one do with that -- what is the conclusion, what is the consequence? >> i think the implication is policy is not actually working on a long-term sustainable basis. the throw the kitchen sink at the economy to get demand up, whatever it takes, is not a long-term sustainable solution. it is working for now. not long-term sustainable. ultimately you have to consider the keynesian is right, we need to revive animal spirits or is the case that the leverage is killing the animal spirits. in which case you are to deal with the leverage, which means you are to cancel debt. so i actually believe ultimately we're heading towards a jubilee type moment. if you look the at course of history -- >> jubilee type moment. >> where the debt cancellation type concept, if you look at the course of history, that's ultimately where

they expand demand in the economy. e they're filling jobs which were previously vacant because employers couldn't find the people. maybe they're allowing employers to expand. that said, um, in some particular local areas, in some sectors, and particularly in the short term, you know, while the economy adjusts, there may be some problems. >> research into the effects of the recession on migrants around the world suggests that most haven't suffered a hostile backlash. >> there is a tendency to a "we" and "they" reaction. hmm? now, in that reaction, as we know, there's a segment of the population that does have xenophobic and--and racist reactions. we've seen that in elections throughout europe, for example. but i don't believe that that's the majority. i think that the majority understands that the migrants perform certain functions in society and whether they're high skilled or lower skilled, uh, they can live with that. it's the crisis situation that makes the thing much more tense. >> the recession has had a considerab