of course, a lot of the concern has been not only the political nature of what's going on at the epa, on coal and that's what the the citizens independent group was concerned with initially. and then when you file an foia request. >> megyn: freedom of information act. >> when you don't know the name of the person involved. and you're utilizing this fictitious name to communicate with government officials at the highest levels and then, five months of stonewalling to get the documents and they say they'll release the documents again just like fast and furious, 3,000 at a time. there's 12 or 15,000 documents tells you something doesn't add up here, something doesn't seem right. >> megyn: the other thing is that the group-- >> she's resigning, but, boy, something is not right here. >> megyn: the other thing that the competitive enterprise institute, when we file a freedom of information request between lisa jackson and say, the white house we are going to do it at the epa and white house, too, and we want responsive documents from both bodies. the white house in doing its search may just

fracking by the epa. charles: i've done a lot of research on this too. and the idea that this is new is not right. it goes back to 1860 when liquid nitroglycerin was first used to breaks rocks and shale. it's evolved a lot since then. by the way, most of the time you are drilling substantially below even where the water bed is. once they do the initial hole, they do the concrete. they cement it. i mean it's -- i mean, it would seem maybe, you know, anecdotally that there could be problems, obviously anything you are dealing with, there could be man made mistakes here and there, but you are talking about taking hundreds of thousands of people who could have a job, heather, and you are saying i don't want you to have a job. >> i'm not saying no natural gas but you can do it by way of traditional wells. stuart: if fracking was released into new york state, hundreds of thousands of jobs would be created high paying jobs at no cost to the government. you are denying those people the opportunity. >> i'm not den

the epa has analyzed the water and said it is safe.ge.le do not like chain conservative people have never liked change, and i suppose the hudson and their ryan are -- >> mitt iran, we have not heard what you said. -- mayor brian, we have not heard what you said. >> after they brought concerns to the industry, cabot oil, they did testing and they said do not drink your water. they said do not base in this water, do not drink it. there is so much behind the scenes, how much oil and gas and big corporations control it. there is an advertising campaign that has cost hundreds of millions of dollars. to say that this is a clean industry, and it is just not. areas like texas and utah and stuff, we're not talking about that. we are dealing with one of the most pristine areas in the country, where clean water will be dramatically affected. it is not the same animal here. range resources did not know what they were doing in pennsylvania back in 2003, and then they came up with this horizontal drilling, and we are right in the middle of an experi

a big natural gas company opens books on fracking to the epa. sult could be a lot more american natural gas production. think about that. jobs, cheap, reliable energy moving forward and a democrat senator pushing for it will join us in minutes. ♪ all right. as i said a moment ago, we'll be joined by one of the democrat senators who signed that letter to president obama urging approval of the keystone pipeline. he will be here ten past ten eastern this morning, this program. to the big board, close to an all-time record high. the dow is now at 13,834 #, up 55 points. to nicole, apple's numbers disappoint, and, boy, is that stock taking a downturn, go. >> oh, big time, down almost 10% right now at $463. out all the people who paid $700 for apple with high hopes of the iphone 5 and apple tv and the next latest product to see it disappoint. >> the soft story of the day, but another good one, surprise profit at netflix. >> right. this one you could faint, i mean, really, it's something to talk about here. adding the subscribers, they've been adding to

i should point out the epa is currently reviewing the safety of the three flame retardant chemicals. that's in addition to the ones the company has already phased out in 2005. the epa could force them out of production as well, but they say that review won't be finished until the end of next year. >> there's something else i want to share with you regarding fire safety. espn host hannah storm had a terrible accident in her home when this propane grill exploded. it left her with first and second degree burns on her face, neck, chest, and hands. >> then i yelled inside to my daughter who was setting the table, my 16-year-old. i said mommy is on fire. you have to call 911. >> mommy's on fire. call 911. amazing stuff. storm returns to the scene of the accident for the first time with me. that's next. yellowing. crest whitestrips whiten as well as $500 professional treatments. guaranteed. crest 3d white whitestrips. has oats that can help lower cholesterol? and it tastes good? sure does! wow. it's the honey, it makes it taste so... well, would you look at the time... what's the rush? be h

the head of the epa, using a government account under the fake name richard windsor. he is her dog.d a fake name? john: the epa said it created the dresses she would have an e-mail address that would n be flooded with the mills from the public. john: wide a fake name. why don't you want people -- john: tortured. to get anything done you have to have some priva conversations, tests, ideas. >> there i an exemption for that. you don't have to create a fake name. john: president obama was very specific about how the public should know what the government is doing. re's a clip. >> is a bill that ends up on my desk as president. you, the public, have fivedays to look on line and find out what is in the before i sign it. john: again, lots of applause which seems pretty simple. five days. it's pretty good. yet he broke it. the first deal he signed. >> it was too much. the hallrk, you know where they struck those deals with the drug companies? on al. prate servers run out of the white house to hide from us. they are not that into transparency. john: thank you for trying to helps find out wha

the head of the epa, using a government account under the fake name richard windsor. he is her dog.d a fake name? john: the epa said it created the dresses she would have an e-mail address that would not be flooded with the mills from the public. john: wide a fake name. why don't you want people -- john: tortured. get anything done you have to have some private conversations, tests, ideas. >> there is an exemption for that. you don't have to create a fake name. john: president obama was very specific about how the public should know what the government is doing. here's a clip. >> is a bill that ends up on my desk as president. you, the public, have five days to look on line and find out what is in the before i sign it. john: again, lots of applause which seems pretty simple. five days. it's pretty good. yet he broke it. the first deal he signed. >> it was too much. the hallmark, you know where they struck those deals with the drug companies? on aol. private servers run out of the white house to hide from us. they are not that into transparency. john: thank you for trying to help us

this morning the epa urging you to take action to get your home tested. radon comes from uranium through the soil and gets into the home through cracks in the foundation. in santa clara county the average amount is below the level necessary to take action. but we can tell you there are trouble spots out there. 25% of the homes in has gatas show are a radon levels in the danger zone. in saratoga it's 16%. >> radon is everywhere. from a real estate perspective if you have a buyer from the east coast or midwest town it's very important for a realtor never to say we don't have radon in california. radon is everywhere. >> for the record the epa says radon is the leading cause of cancer death among nonsmokers in america. >> taking down pill thieveses with bait bottles. police plan to plant gps devices in fake pill bottles. the bait bottles will be mixed in with regular prescriptions to help police track down thieves. a major spike in pharmacy robberies across the country as demand on the black market rises for powerful painkillers. >> one night is apparently not

you mentioned the epa case . at would that have cost virginia if they prevailed >> they were trying to regulate the storm water in the same way they would regulate nitrogen and sludge . this was under the clean water act. what we are trying to keep clean is water and yet they were regulating in the same manner as a polullant and because of the financial impact, your point number two. democratic board of supervisors joined us. financially they didn't feel they had a choice. dollars are a big deal. we rather keep them in our pocket than give them to government. what we would have to do is tear down peopla houses and tear down their businesses and take them away . plant grass so the water wouldn't flow in the aqua tank and have retainer homes it is people's homes and businesses and spend the money on to kick them out . thos what it looks like in the real world when this kind of federal overreach is actually implemented in your neighborhood and in your back yard. >> ken cuccneli. thank you for being here. >> get the b

the president. he's required under law. because epaat these pollutants are an endangerment to public health, he is required under law to regulate them. he has no choice in the matter. he has to regulate them. >> do you see that happening, and, b -- i hear that but the think, the political blowback is -- i can only imagine what will happen on capitol hill and fox news if this happened. >> one thing that would be important is to look at who the next administrator will be. i think that will be the greatest indicator. >> of the epa. >> of the epa. lisa jackson has been a fierce warrior, she's put herself out there and taken a significant hit back. it will be important to see who the white house selects, what type of power and support they'll put behind that person. because i think the reality is, the hit from fox news and others, the litigation, cannot be not taken really seriously. >> it can't be -- the key point here is, it can't be defended by the administrator alone, right? >> right, right. >> if you're going to do it, the president an

occurs to me the epa doesn't have the power to prosecute in the event of pollution and a halliburtonloophole in place from the place. the first to do this. still in place. shouldn't we at least empower the epa to look in to this stuff and prosecute if necessary if there's pollution taking place? >> asking me, i don't think there's any doubt that the only real future for fracking on either side, going to survive and i think it is, going to survive without a lot of damage, the epa and the state deps in new york, west virginia, ohio and especially in pennsylvania are the key to it. it's -- we have got to get in and embrace a regulatory structure that works, to make that opportunity cost for oil and gas a little higher. think veal to sort of pay a little protect it and protect themselves. they don't want to have spills. spills cost a lot of money. i looked at a great deal of evidence about the kind of cleanups and the cost of them but the number that everybody talks about is how much gas is in the marcellus. that's a number that gas industry is willing to lean in to and make some changes

still ahead -- the environment is not good for outgoing epa chief lisa jackson. we'll explain. tain future as well for the next big thing in commercial aviation. what are you doing? nothing. are you stealing our daughter's school supplies and taking them to work? no, i was just looking for my stapler and my... this thing. i save money by using fedex ground and buy my own supplies. that's a great idea. i'm going to go... we got clients in today. [ male announcer ] save on ground shipping at fedex office. ♪ [ male announcer ] some day, your life will flash before your eyes. make it worth watcng. introducing the 2013 lexus ls. an entirely new pursuit. >> bret: wildfires in australia top international news. it's summer down under and fighting fires there are difficult. 95 are burning in new south wales with 18 out of control. new rights for women in saudi arabia. king granted women 30 seats on the top advisory council for the first time. a big step in a country where women's lives are heavily restricted. women are not allowed to travel, work, marry or even be admitted to a public ho

don't follow what the epa says. shocking. thank you for coming on the show today. >> thank you.issa: strong housing data, better than expected. the blue chip hit highest level since october 15, 2007. the dow is 210 points away from the all-time closing high. look at that. all right. next on "money," tennessee unvails a genius plan for job growth. i love this. lightning fast interpret could make it a boom town for businesses. chattanooga's major joins us exclusively to explain. plus, president and congress moving full steam ahead on immigration reform, but do the benefits outweigh potential costs? we'll crunch the numbers. more "money" straight ahead. ♪ officemax knows... ...tax time can be...well...taxing. so right now we'll give you... ...$10 off any turbo tax deluxe level software or higher! find thousands of big deals now... ...at officemax. ♪ melissa: so call it a potential hackers haven, but chattanooga hoping to offer the fastest internet structure in the country. if that's not enough for you, they instituted a new program called geek moves that covers mortgage and moving

the epa then comes in and says we can verify the nature and reductions and we can be a facilitator to move those reductions or trade those reductions because of their different local program so we have a local program and the federal setting the standards and then you have the federal government saying we will figure out a way so that the states can interact with their own unique problems -- on unique row grants to solve the problem. >> doug, or secretary -- secretary schaefer has introduced the chesapeake day into this local state and federal and you are right in the middle of that. virginia is in that. can you talk a little bit about that relationship and the role of local folks and virginia's perspective on engaging them but also if you would reflect back to something gary said. there are concerns by all those agricultural act year's, fears, concerns about their economic livelihood. how does the state of virginia under your leadership, how do you think about addressing those in ways and principles we are talking about. >> thinks lynn and i definitely am somebody here to learn, not

don't follow what the epa says. shocking. thank you for coming on the show today. >> thank you.issa: strong housing data, better than expected. the blue chip hit highest level since october 15, 2007. the dow is 210 points away from the all-time closing high. look at that. all right. next on "money," tennessee unvails a genius plan for job growth. i love this. lightning fast interpret could make it a boom town for businesses. chattanooga's major joins us exclusively to explain. plus, president and congress moving full steam ahead on immigration reform, but do the benefits outweigh potential costs? we'll crunch the numbers. more "money" straight ahead. ♪ ani would ever quit.t think [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix is proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke. it put me at ease that you could smoke on the first week. [ male announcer ] some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these stop taking chantix a

i believe what the epa should do looking to regulate activities, be thoughtful. this goes back to the broader question about access. here we have a cleaner burning fuel that dmon straighted -- demonstrated a positive impact in carbon emissions reductions. they are pursuing low carbon in many technologies, but the very fuel we're allowed to produce in vast quantitity is really what's driving that to date in reducing the carbon emissions. that should be taken in consideration with all other aspects in regulating carbon emissions. >> [inaudible] >> well, within the refining sector, we're looking at that and constantly improving what we do in terms of emissions. again, we need to look at where the emissions are coming from. the electric utility sector is where the vast majority of carbon emissions occur today. it's appropriate, they look at that sector long before the refinery sector which is really quite small compared to other emitting forms. >> miller from voa news. >> yeah. >> we're a pocketbook nation. a year ago at the last energy address, oil prices and gasolin

several groups joined together to sue the epa to force it to regulate led ammunition. council for the group says there's been a lot of political pressure on the epa from gun right groups. >> even though we have gotten the led out of paint and gasoline but led bullets are okay. doesn't make any sense to us. >> a bill to block the epa from regulating ammunition didn't get it from capitol hill but it has been reintroduced in the house this year. >> all right, thank you. >>> fox news alert, we have breaking news at this hour on a gun control story we have been following closely on america live. last week chicago mayor and former chief of staff to president obama rahm emanuel sends an open letter to several big banks pressuring them to cut off funds to firearm companies that don't actively get behind president obama's gun control efforts. he say get on board or -- these companies need to get on board or bank of america should just cut them off. today a response from texas senator ted cruz. he has just sent a letter to the ceo's of several gun manufacturers and to the banks.

there are questions whether anybody in the epa could possibly get confirmed as the new epa administrator given what's going on with this issue. 600 people will walk into the florida everglades to hunt the pythons, powerful enough to swallow an alligator whole. what could possibly go wrong? uproar over a proposal for a so-called trillion dollar coin. could it allow washington to keep spending right past our debt ceiling? that's next. ♪ oh, o go on and take the mone and run ♪ ♪ go on, take the money and run ♪ clear, huh? i'm not juice or fancy water. i've gotine grams of protein. that's three times more than me! [ female announcer ] ensure clear. nine grams protein. zero fat. in blueberry/pomegranate and peach. starts with arthritis pain and a choice. take tylenol or take aleve, the #1 recommended pain reliever by orthopedic doctors. just two aleve can keep pain away all day. back to the news. just two aleve can keep pain away all day. avoid bad.fats. don't go over 2000... 1200 calories a day. carbs are bad. carbs are good. the story keeps changing. so i'm not listening... to anyone but my

now, listen to this, regulatory menace lisa jackson from the epa is not only out at the epa, but thet is because the keystone pipeline is apparently going to be fully approved. we have the man who broke this full story joining us next. please stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] don't just reject convention. drown it out. introducing the all-new 2013 lexus ls f sport. an entirely new pursuit. introducing the all-new 2013 lexus ls f sport. you know it can be hard to lbreathe, and how that feels.e, copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva helps control my copd symptoms by keeping my airways open for 24 hours. plus, it reduces copd flare-ups. spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that does both. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. stop taking spiriva and seek immediate medical help if your

another agency getting attention is the epa groups for years are pushing the epa to regulate bullets and ammunition pause of their lead content. epa says we don't have authority to do it. a number of groups filed lawsuits in federal court to force the agency to look over and how the bullets are being used where they are being used. this is what the lawsuit says. it is indisputable that lead is a chemical substance. epa concluded that toxic lead is a toxic substance and removed nearly all products containing lead from the market. the epa has not taken any action to regulate lead bullets and shot. that lawsuit was filed last summer. no decision yet from the court, patti ann. patti ann: how is the gun industry responding, shannon. >> reporter: they tried to get involved filing as intervenor wanting to be a party, the epa is right, saying it doesn't have the authority to tell you how much ammo you can buy, what kind you can use and you can't. here is larry keane, one of the industry representatives. >> we have seen and are concerned about efforts through executive orders and regulatory po

the epa is now moving forward too slowly for most people, towards acquiring the practices that don't gas in the air. remember, if you're doing that, you're not only adding pollution into the air but you're also losing money. as a former governor, you're also losing tax revenue depending on your state's structure for drilling. if it's federal land, the government wants that little revenue stream from gas. >> jennifer: i'm just so curious, i've actually been dying to talk to you. you are the guy who follows this stuff closer than almost anybody, and you have such an objective hat on. everybody has talked about the problems with natural gas fracking, and the potential of co2. the question bottom line, can we do this safely and lead in producing natural gas as a way of exporting it to other countries, to china, for example, to help them lower their co2 footprint to address climb change? >> i wrote several pieces about china has a huge amount of gas in the ground there shale gas as well. a lot of experts i've talked to they say the best thing to do is advance our technology to extract the

well, the epa called it standard practice, but ms. und christmas just as the inspector general within the epa started taking a hard look at this. she says the resignation was family reasons and nothing to do with the aliases and now they say it may be more widespread than we knew. my next guest thinks there's another reason to her resignation, he is name is chris horner, with the enterprise institute and the liberal war on transparency and you are the man who started this all, chris horner, we may never have known of richard windsor, the alias she was using had it not been for you. >> well, that's true. i found a very surprising memo this spring, while writing the book, "living transparency" and including document destruction, which on its face is criminal, g-mail, servers and a whole host of things and under the administrator carol browner had destroyed her hard drive in violation of a court order-- i take it back, our hard drive, claiming she didn't use the computer for personal e-mail and i found out about the secret or alias accoun

i think president obama proved its first term that the epa used correctly has some muscle on these thingsourts now recognize that they can regulation emissions, and it's a moratorium now because of some of those decisions. new standards about emissions from cars, and anybody walking around the detroit auto show saw there is a whole new range of cars that are trying to hit those 2015 targets. but every expert you talk to here -- everybody you talk to says we need a price on carbon. that is going to be the biggest thing that help drive the cost up and the emissions down. >> jennifer: and that of course is not going to happen with this congress, and i would be surprised, frankly, james if the epa is going to be the means, good luck getting an epa head confirmed, right? >> that is definitely going to be a challenge, and with an outgoing epa head who has troubled a lot of concerns here -- >> >> jennifer: yeah especially with no filibuster reform. >> yeah. >> jennifer: it's a tough one. all right james i got to go but i really thank you so much for joining us again. >> always a pleasure. >> jen

we were talking about the agencies of government -- the epa needs to berebuilt. no doubt about that. >> but you can't name the third one? >> the third division of government -- >> commerce? >> commerce. and let's see. i can't, the third one, i can't. sorry. >> he must have got a whole lot of help from his pals here. that's why they came out. you can't bring notes with you? they start scribbling the notes when they get out there. howard, i've never heard oops before in the national debate. >> up next, the most outrageous conspiracy theories. this is "hardball," the place for poll sicks. [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. your soups are so awesomely delicious my husband and i can't stop eating 'em! what's...that... on your head? can curlers! tomato basil, potato with bacon... we've got a lot of empty cans. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. >>> back to "hardball." the final weeks of president obama's first term are upon us. it's hard to remember the many bizarre conspiracy theories pushed about the president the last four years. let's look back a

a source reportedly close to jackson told the new york post she does not want to be at the epa when the pipeline is given the green light, saying -- "she will not be the epa head when obama supports keystone getting built." this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. efforts to close the u.s. military prison at guantanamo bay were dealt another setback last week when president obama signed the national defense authorization act or ndaa. the bill bars the use of federal funds to transfer guantanamo prisoners to u.s. soil, even for criminal trial. it also includes restrictions on the executive branch's authority to transfer detainees to a foreign country. president obama says he signed the ndaa's renewal despite his objections to the guantanamo provisions. in a signing statement, he said the president has constitutional power to override these restrictions. he made a similar kind any signed last year's version of the bill, but still not delivered on promises to close guantanamo. it was four years ago this month, just after his first inauguration

however, the epa has a message for all of the lbgt youth out there in tennessee or not. they published a video supporting lbgt rights it's a part of dan savage's it gets better project. >> being openly gay at epa has been so much easier than i ever thought. >> when i came to epa to work full-time, i made the decision right away that i was going to be out from the minute that i got here. i didn't want to start this important part of my life in the closet again. >> jennifer: there will always be misguided people like the senator from tennessee, but there will also be a whole lot of people who are kind and welcoming like dan savage and the epa. and it doesn't get much better than that. or maybe it does. remember the 60 sitcom gomer pile? jim neighbors told hawaii news now. we have been together for 38 years, and it was not ashamed of people knowing, it was just such a personal thing that i didn't tell anybody. >> jennifer: they married earlier this month in washington state. congratulations private. and thank you all for joining us in "the war room." hope you have a great n

stuart: but the post said that lisa jackson is resigning as the administrator of the epa because she dent obama was likely to go ahead with the keystone pipeline. so it looks like it is being discussed. and it is at least possible that the president reverses his earlier opposition. >> he has that option. we hope he won't. this is disastrous for the climate. it takes three times the carbon to get that oil out of the ground as it does stuart for conventional oil. that's a real problem. they are destroying something like 250 square miles have been turned into industrial wasteland, of the forrests, size of chicago -- of the forests, size of chicago. charles: chicago used to be a giant forest too but then they had to clear it away for people to live there. but go ahead. stuart: hold on a second, bob. i have a breaking story. general motors december sales figures for you, up 5%, year over year, gm up 5%. the stock has gone to $29 a share. earlier we had ford with a 2% year on year gain. back to bob dean, natural resource defense council. we have an extension of one year of wind industry sub

they forged a marriage between the epa and d.o.t. that really benefit i think all of us, and that partnership will continue. but i will say that as good as labor -- ray lahood and lisa jackson, it came from the president of the united states and president obama's going to be here with us as we continue these methods and as you indicated to think about how we use the same collaborative approach to look at where the market is heading and how do we take most advantage of that working with the private sector and those that we regulate. that is going to continue. >> i think if you can wait for a microphone which is in the back here and also if you can identify yourself, that would be great. >> hi. i write the weekly newsletter and no one here is talked about the gas tax. i'm sure you have all thought about it a lot. plenty of studies have shown consumer willingness to buy fuel-efficient cars is tied to lower prices and gas or i should say higher prices and gas. congress obviously is in no mood to raise the gas tax right now, so how do we d

with eminent domain of use and the epa is a huge violator have been doing a pretty good job they haveeen slapped down to the epa because they declared someone's land a wetland in you cannot challenge this while be fine you $75,000 per day. gerri: we heard about that. i knew about them in the domain. good reasons and very bad reasons. can and should americans fight back? >> absolutely. politics is messy but one rule is they will find the easiest path to get what they want. there is the case next week involving a guy who had a permit the city said you coulhave it but you have to pay $150,000 for our land. this is a big benefit if we don't stop them. politicians can use no tax revenue to get the land approved. gerri: trevor burrus comeback. i hope nobody comes after my tomatoes. >> with the american banking website how great is the threat? a new warning over social security and medicare. how much trouble are they really and? stay with us. stay with us. ♪ you know how painful heartburn can be. for fast, long lasting relief, use doctor recommended gaviscon®. only gaviscon® forms a protecti

we were talking about the agencies of government -- the epa needs to be rebuilt. >> you can't name the third one? >> the third aej agency of government, i would do away with education, commerce, and let's see -- >> i can't. the third one, i can't. sorry. oops. >> he wasn't going to get help from his pals there. that's where they come out, the first thing they do in the debates, they start scribbling on the notes. >> props to john harwood there. >> was he brutal? >>> up next, the right wing's most famous conspiracy theorys about president obama. this is "hardball." [ man ] ring ring... progresso this reduced sodium soup says it may help lower cholesterol, how does it work? you just have to eat it as part of your heart healthy diet. step 1. eat the soup. all those veggies and beans, that's what may help lower your cholesterol and -- well that's easy [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. >>> back to "hardball." the final weeks of president obama's first term are upon us. it's hard to remember the bizarre conspiracy theories pushed about the president the last four years

. >> john: and he and the epa is impose those standards? urt found that the epa has the right and legal obligation to regulate emissions of greenhouse. there will be court fights and lawsuit, but in fact he does have the authority. >> john: that brings me to the keystone pipeline. everyone i know thinks that it's inevitable that this president will cave and not fight the keystone pipeline. what is your take. >> that's the word too. that's my feeling. i think there is a lot of political pressure for him to approve it. it plays into his energy independence themselves he has talked about. it's hard to say though. he's going to take a lot of grief if he doesn't approve it. and many will kick up a big storm. >> john: yes, they are. >> but it's hard to say. with john kerry now who has had a very strong record on climate as secretary of state. it's their authority, secretary of state who has to sign off on that, even though the president will make the decision. i don't think it's a done deal so we'll have to wait and see. >> john: what about a carb

the epa has the power to regulate greenhouse gas emissions under epa vs. husetts, and if there is enough pressure, there is legal space to really start imposing and the facto carbon tax on the economy by making it expensive to pollute. the other tool that this year already is bad government spends an enormous amount of money on energy. it has interests fleet of vehicles and buildings. this does not require going to the republicans to ask them for more money for renewable energy. if the government uses its power purchasing to pursue big green light, green purchasing, that will jumpstart the clean energy structure. that is something universities can do as well. harvard does not own any affected vehicles to get rid of that might be a place to pressure. down the line we have to be looking at the fact the way the fossil fuel industries are born to be checked this with state power. i commend bill mckibben and everyone at 350 for this effort, but i'm not sure any of us are clear to how to act to get this to turn into legal power to check these firms. it is not one