how did you get to the fec? >> a long and winding path, but the short answer is, i was nominated by president bush to fill a seat on the federal election commission and confirmed by the senate. because the agency cannot have more than three members from any one party, my name, i'm a registered democrat, so my name was sent for suggestion to the white house by the majority leader, senator reid because president bush was looking for names of democrats, of course, and so there were several of us who were confirmed all about the same time and took office about june of 2008, some in july of 2008. >> let's put on the screen a look at outside spending and first, in congressional races, and if you can explain to the students what these graphs mean. >> sure. one of the benefits of the information we get in at the fec is, we're able to see some trends in the data. and everyone after citizens united started wondering what the impact was going to be in terms of these knew types of spenders that could spend -- raise unlimited

the fec decided not to enforce it back in 1987. the chairman took that cue and got rid of it from our books. the bigger issue can't always be when you say fairness doctrine all the phones and radio stations light up. there are other ways the fec can regulate speech through broadcast license renewals. as we go through the term is, what would be the criteria for getting your license renewed et cetera, it is always important to look at those rules as well. >> one final question in this round and we have some questions about broad band to come up later. is the fec the proponent agency, i won't get this term right, the royalty fees paid to the song writers, artists, it's not under an fec umbrella, is that correct? >> correct. >> whose umbrella is that under? >> i don't know, but it's not us. >> that's a good thing. that will save a couple of minutes of the round of questioning. >>. >> let me start by madam chairman saying the commissioner, the chairman and his staff have been succeedingly open to us and our staff. i want to thank you for

the increase on the fec of employees earning $150,000 or above. so even though the number of employees may be flat, those making $150,000 and above have increased rather dramatically. that's what this chart reflects. >> you would like to submit that for the record? >> that would be great, if i could. thank you. it's a huge increase of individuals that are now earning over 150% -- $150,000 in salary so. let me see if i can get you some of those numbers. down from 46 in 2008 individuals to 431 in 2009 to 535 in 2011. that's a pretty say on theishing increase. so what changed between 2008 and 2009 that required such an increase in pay is it different individuals, is it increased -- i'm not sure what that actually shows us other than that the fact that the numbers are pretty astonishing? >> so i'm not familiar with the reasons for that particular increase in general the work of the fec increasingly requires highly skilled engineers, economists others with advanced degrees to do our work. overtime the employee base at the fcc has become more and more fo

you mentioned how the fec has a three and three nature, you can't have more than three members of any political party on the commission at one time. and obviously you need four votes for the fec to take any action. because of this, a lot of people have criticized the fec as toothless or slow-moving. as a commissioner, how would you -- what is your perspective on these characterizations? >> i would agree with some of them, actually. yes, it is the nature of the -- the statute set up a system where no more than three could be from one political party. that has not always meant that there are three democrats and three republicans. at this point in time, we have three republicans, two democrats and an independent. but we do need four votes to take action and so that does require bipartisan, if you will, compromise on most of the things that we would like to do. sometimes i've personally found that compromise is more illusive than i would expect it to on certain issues. i think for many of the years of the commission's existence, this issue really wasn't as problematic as many on the outsi

disclosure. >> the contribution disclosure. >> how has the fec gutted the contribution disclosure? >> by defining the only contributions required to be disclosed as the contributions that were given for the specific purpose of making campaign-related expenditures. >> and these would be contributions to these various groups like the sierra club or democracy 21 or whatever other group might spend money for that purpose? >> yeah. >> okay. do you think we should be having a hearing on the -- enforcing the statute? >> i think you ought to have a separate hearing on fundamentally reforming the federal election commission, but i don't think a hearing on enforcing a statute on this regulation is going to get us to solve the problem of disclosure. >> but the statute you said required disclosure? >> under the current regular rules of the statute that resulted in $130 million not being disclosed. >> mr. keating made a statement that groups like the sierra club should be able to run ads out of their own budget. is that a fair -- >> yes. >> and do you all agree with that that groups like the si

so help me understand that. >> to the extent the fec is involved in this area it goes back many, many years. a part of the public trustee obligations of broadcasters, and as i mentioned, cog codified this in 2002. >> does it -- sorry to you mentioned small businesses and commissioner mcdowell mentioned that as well. one of the suggestions that came in in the record was to look at ways to exempt small businesses from this move or give them more time to make the transition. in general even small broadcasters are engaging with the fcc online and a renewal application haves to be online. they are after all broadcasting and -- but to the extent that there are burden issues that can be addressed those are issues that have been raised on the record and we will look at them. >> commissioner. >> i want to clarify that broadcasters came to us and wanted us to move a lot of these file requirements to be online. but they wanted the political file component carved out because of the proposed costs. so that's really i think what's at issue here. it's not transparency. it is the cost to broadcasters

the regulations issued by the fec have gutted the disclosure requirement. they have limited disclosure to only individuals who give for the specific purpose of running those ads. no one says they do. that is how we wound up with $135 million in undisclosed contributions. >> the practical effect is that we do not know where this 501c-4 money is coming from and we will never know. >> if you listen to mr. keating closely is that he is talking about independent expenditures. these groups are running communications. contributions to fund communications are not adequately expose -- expose. >> so my example is correct. >> i believe so. >> my time is running out. we will try to have a second round. my second question goes to mr. werthheimer. removing limits from contributions -- your proposal would be that everything would be disclosed, senator alexander. if someone wanted to get to an independent expenditure, there would be -- there would be disclosure of that. >> i am assuming that if the limits were elected, people would get to the campaigns and the campaigns an

>> the fec in these kind of cases often can reach consensus on core areas of the law. was saying, there are fec that is not unlawful under a civil standard. to be in a criminal setting is problematic. >> it's a jury trial. it's a different story. >> it's where it could end up on appeal. >> always a pleasure to talk to you. >>> coming up, thursday political panel is here. who would have guessed former president jimmy carter could be so eloquent about the merits of mitt romney. first, the soup of the day, el paso chicken and rice. not just any chicken and race. el paso. that means thaw put pepper in it. hopefully chipotle. we'll be right back. does any mother ever feel like their kids are adults? i have twins, 21 years old. each kid has their own path. they grow up, and they're out having their life. i really started to talk to them about the things that are important that they have to take ownership over. my name's colleen stiles, and my kids and i did our wills on legalzoom. [ shapiro ] we created legalzoom to help you take care of the ones you love. go to legalzoom.co

does the fec intend to use the resources to weigh in on state laws and regulations regarding alcohol sales and distribution, and if so, in what capacity would you be doing that? so those are the two separate issues. >> okay. let me take the first one first, and i'll take the second one after that. we got a letter from 36 state attorney general plus territorial attorney general. including the attorney general of puerto rico. and they raised a very serious problem. which you just documented. which is what happens when there's all sorts of pirated software out there that gives foreign competitors and unfair advantage over american companies because they pay for licensing. they buy computers. and it's complicated, too. when the congress created our agency, they gave us limited remedies. we don't put people in jail. but for unfair methods of competition. commissioner rosch has been a leader. so it's a number around the anti-trust fund. so because this is an important issue and because there have been sop in the business community who have pushed back very vigorously about our use of this.

then i can certainly go on to the fec online and find out who all of my contributors are. i'm just -- i'm confused by whether -- is there a problem that exists out there that we're trying to correct? >> the information that's in broadcaster public files and broadcasters have been required by statute and commission rules for many years as part of the obligations as public trustees to maintain certain information available for everyone in the public. for any citizen, for anyone to have access to it. >> right. >> the question in this proceeding is, whether in the 21st century a disclosure obligation that's fulfilled by a filing cabinet alone makes sense or whether common sense says, if broadcasters are required to disclose anything, as they are by statute, shouldn't that be online? most obligations of broadcasters have to disclose -- in fact, in general at the fcc increasingly interactions are digital not paper whether it's applications, consumer complaints, license information. the suggestion in the report that came out last year as part of a general effort to move from paper

they can do whatever they want and because of decisions and rulings by the fec, they can just give unlimited amounts of money and sometimes they can do it anonymously, as you know, through things like a rove organization called crossroads gps that is vaguely distinguishable from the ones where they do have to name their naimz. so they can go to town, and one thing that i found in this piece is, at the time we came out and i think we're now adding more, there were 25 sugar daddiy ies defined as people who have already in this cycle given over $1 million each. that's just in primary season. >> lean forward with rachel maddow's unique take on politics and today's stories. the show airs weeknights 9:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. >>> now here is your first look at some of the other news going on around america today. incredible video out of california where an underground electrical volt exploded three times. now, you can see there police and fire crews are very close to the spot each time it blew. two firefighters did suffer minor burns from the blasts. >>> also in california, a grim and unusua

the fec which has jurisdiction over banks, airlines, phone companies, has approved similar rules. ttom line? almost every robo call to your phone will be illegal unless you give your consent. >> hello. this is stacy at account holder services. >> reporter: robocalls like this one interrupt consumers every day. just ask celeste ryan of takoma park, maryland. >> press the number one on your phone now. >> all hours of the day and i mean it can start from like 8:00 or 9:00 a.m. >> it is urgent thaw contact us. >> it will go until 7:00 or 8:00. >> she says she would get up to five robocalls a day while home on maternity leave and all of the calls promise to help her reduce her credit card debt. >> calling in reference to your current credit card account. >> my husband and i do not have credit card debt. and it's just invading our privacy and i just feel like my rights are being violated especially when i don't qualify for the offer. >> reporter: federal rules are meant to prohibit unwanted robocalls and with the new combined effort by the fcc and the ftc, consumers should stop getting u

the fec generally says you can't take your personal spending which meeting on your kids or your mistress a campaign expenditure. nobody likes john edwards but even the conservative national review criticized the entire prosecution. it tells us something that we're seeing the government spend resources on this kind of sex prosecution and not some of the other allegations around campaign spending in this country. >> real hunter, michelle goldberg, the name that won't leave anybody's lips. >> probably the only person until america or 3% of us who feel really, really bad for john edwards especially because he brought it on himself. just to imagine kind of having destroy your life on that scale through your own volition, i can't imagine anything more excruciating. >> we'll go to our last piece of the day. to you kurt andersen, walmart shares fell as investors reacted they trying to bribe mexican official officials and then tried to cover up the corruption. >> a shows why we still need institutions like "the new york times" that can do these giant investigative journalism. the fact they knew a

that is when the fec finally closed out his campaign with some debt unpaid. s you can learn from mr. glenn's presidential moon shot. the next time, shoot for the stars. star with us. the day's top lines are coming up. >> every president starts campaigning but i think it is time that maybe we stop that by having just one term presidents. or maybe stop the idea -- >> one six-year president. >> something like. that otherwise they don't get anything done. [ female announcer ] think it's impossible to reduce the look of wrinkles after just one use? think again. [ female announcer ] with olay regenerist wrinkle revolution, it's possible to reduce the look of wrinkles in just 10 minutes. now you've seen it. experience it for yourself. [ female announcer ] olay regenerist. that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm. for half the calories plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. with rent2buy from hertz car sales, you skip the lots... and pushy sales people... it's a fast, easy way to buy a used car. three days to try. zero pressure to buy. it's just another way you'll b

i really doubt the fec is going tone force t there are good things that are helpful in this bill, gretanumber one, it used to be they only had to disclose their financial transactions one time a year. now they have to do it every 45 days. second of all, they have put a ban in place on the sweetheart ipo deals. you are not allowed the sweetheart ipos again. it's a good step forward. >> it does not deal with land deals where members of congress buy real estate and put earmarks in to build a road or something that increases the real estate value like speaker dennis did. it's replete with examples. maybe it's a step forward but it certainly is peculiar. the rest of us knew it was wrong without any sort of extra statute put into place. so now it's a law. but it is too bad, do you agree that congresswoman marie slaughter missed the signing. >> yes, it is: a very small forward, gretabut a step forward. i think the problem, this is one of those issues that unites people on left and on the right. it doesn't matter if you have a d or r after your name, you are going to believe and think this is w

that would be listed in the fec filings. we would know that the sierra club gave to the script. -- to this group. >> the statute does require contributors to be disclosed. the regulations have gutted the disclosure provision. they have limited the disclosure to only individuals who give for the specific purpose of running those ads. that is how we wound up with $135 million in undisclosed contributions. >> the practical effect is we do not know where this 501c4 money is coming from. we will never know. that is the bottom line. >> i think if you listen to mr. keating, he talked about independent expenditures. what is happening is they are running communications, contributions to fund and not adequately disclosed. think fe toc regulations. >> my example is correct? >> i think so. >> thank you. my time is running out. we will try to have a second round. my quest -- my second question goes to mr. wertheimer. some have suggested removing contribution limits. that it would be a solution. can you give us a brief sketch of what would

and that can be stopped by the fec enforcing existing law. >> congressman, the recess appointments that again, you can say oh that's unprecedented. but they are just trying to hold up everything. >> that's exactly right. it's very clear the republicans are fighting for failure. mitch mcconnell has said his goal is to make president obama a one-term president. and he doesn't have a rierth to do that in respect to taking up the responsibility of the senate to at least vote yes or no on presidential nominees. if he wants to fight him in the campaign fine, but if mitch mcconnell is going to prohibit, in effect the senate from tocking up on a yes or no vote, the president has to act. so we're really urging the president to do, i think the obvious thing and the right thing. >> well, you know, it's interesting, the citizens united, we were talking about polling, and 75, 80% of the people are against the citizens united yule -- ruling. and you are trying to mitigate the impact. >> yes, and have a cop on the beat at least doing its job. saying there is supposed to be a clear wall between the cam

i have been involved in a situation where you had to bring in the fec. e protocol is we are going to wash our hands and give it to outsiders and they are going to run with it. that is the protocol. that is sarbanes-oxley. they seemed to have completely ignored the protocol. >> there was a protocol to the internal affairs department and they changed the protocol. >> all of this is based on what seems to have been many months of new york times reporting. i would have loved to understand the whistle blower who was at the center of the payments. why seven or eight years later did he and i'm assuming he was the main source, why did he come forward so many years later? i would love to understand why he made that decision so many years later. >> you cover wal-mart better than anyone else in the world. is this a truly despised company where a motivated justice department gets a call from president obama today saying i read the new york times. you open an investigation about these guys? >> i don't think it's a truly despised company at all. personally, i don't thi

that would be listed in the fec filings, so we would know that this year club gave to this group that're talking about here. >> go ahead. >> the statute does require contributors to be disclosed. the regulations issued by the sec have gutted the disclosure provisions. that is how. they have limited the disclosure to all the individuals to give for the specific purpose of writing those ads. no one says they do. that is how we wind up with $135 million in undisclosed contributions. >> correct. >> the practical effect is we don't know where this privacy for -- 501(c)(4) money is coming from. we will never know. that is the bottom line, isn't that correct? >> he talked about disclosure independent expenditures. what is happening technically speaking is that these groups are running election-year communications with his contributions to fund election-year communications not adequately disclosed thanks to sec regulations as well as a deadlock as to how the rules should -- >> my example is correct. >> i believe so. yes. >> thank you. my time is running out. we will try to have a second round

campaign spending, is the fcc the best agency to achieve such ends rather than a federal election commission? number two, would fcc requirements that are duplicative to fec rules violate the paperwork reduction act? and number three, among many others and there are more in my written testimony, where are the em kuwaiting in singling out tv broadcasters for such disclosure requirements when political campaigns spend a plethora of money on outlets to conduct voters such as radio, newspapers, the internet, direct mail, outdoor advertising, cable television, satellite radio and tv, paid activists that knock on doors and many, many, more avenues for better average. i'm hopeful that we as policymakers can strike the right balance between protecting core political speech and encouraging transparency without disproportionately burdening one of many. one of many outlets. finally, all of us should be concerned with a well-organized international effort to give an arm of the united nations known as the international te telecommunication union, new powers over internet governance through a renegotiation of a treaty. the internet has flourished under deregulation not

something really interesting that i was talking about earlier before we got on set with you the that you look at his fec disclosures and is public record of congressional staffers, he only retained five from his 43 at the campaign and all the more based in wisconsin. it talks about a larger issue about republicans who came into washington without a lot of political experience and thinking they could totally change the system. it's very frustrating. there are ways, processes, leaders that have been here forever. it is a struggle and there is frustration that they really have not been able to do exactly what they wanted because there is a divided government. you have a group of people who came to washington not wanting to be a part of washington, but then realizing quickly in order to the effect of that you have to be. it is this weird to exist at a crisis for these people. once you get to washington, you are a part of washington, said how'd you do without after it happens? that is the undercurrent of what that story was trying to say. it is a struggle to adjust the matter what party you're in. >> see rea

testify that what john edwards did, even if you assume all the allegations are true, wasn't even a civil violation much less a criminal one. so if these fec commissioners can testify, they may be the star witnesses. >> he says if they testify. why isn't it a certainty they'll testify? >> it's very controversial. you're talking about two witnesses coming in and offering a conclusion to the legal issues in the case, the ultimate issue in the case that the jury is supposed to decide. i've talked to veteran prosecutors who prosecute these kinds of cases. even they think this stretches the outer limits of how the campaign finance laws will be applied. so this is a tough case for the prosecutors to make. >> sanvanna and hampton, thanks to both of you. appreciate it. >>> it's now 14 after the hour. here's ann. >> matt, thank you. the parents of a 6-year-old girl in arizona missing for nearly a week have talked publicly for the first time since their daughter disappeared. nbc's miguel almaguer is in tucson again this morning on the sorry. miguel, good morning. >> reporter: ann, good morning. the parents of isabel celis say they last saw their dau