part of the irs exempt organizations division. in processing these tax exempt applications. the additional assessment and plan of action appear to be a solid road map to addressing the problem, and we encourage you, as i said at the beginning to actively, to vigorously, to completely pursue this plan. but for our committee, which launched this investigation on a bipartisan basis, the backdrop for today's hearing is the troubling new information that has come to light about the report issued by the treasury inspector general. this week we learned for the first time that three key items, one, a screening list used by the irs included the tomorrow "progressives." two, progressive groups were among the 298 applications that titta reviewed in their audit and received height 'ed scrutiny. and, three, inspector general did not research the term was added to the screen list or how those cases were handled bay different group of specialists in the irs. the failure of the audit to acknowledge these facts is a fundamental gnaw in th

>> the irs. we said that we talked to a we preach committees and others on this before we issued it in final. that if you -- interactivity are greater than 50% you're clued in the primary. if you're a political intervention is greater than 50%. if you are less than% we would think that your in a comfortable safe zone of not being in that primary range. between 40 and 50% it gets tougher. and, therefore, if you're a taxpayer and you believe that your expenditures somewhere between 40-50% you wouldn't attest to do is go through the traditional review and we take a close look t to make -- >> as a people applied to in order to obtain the status? >> yes. >> you determine what they give you, the information they give you as to whether not they are more than 40% involved in whatever political culture exists because essentially we're trying to figure out what this primary means and what we are offering with the self attestation is some inherent structured how we can think about is. >> once that orszag rec

we will sue the irs and fight this. should not -- i don't care whether you are on the right or left of the political spectrum. we need a nation of laws, and if they can do this to us, they can do it to anyone. >> that's tierney. i promise we have a whole row to get to as we continue. thank you for sharing that story. we will come back. coming up, more with the studio audience when we return on this special edition of hannity. >>> welcome back to this special edition of "hannity." we are joined by our studio audience and all believe they are targeted by the irs. brooke, texas. >> i am the head of an organization called the texas public policy foundation, and we have been around for 25 years. our story is also a little different. in the summer of one year ago our donor list was disclosed. they say inadvertently by the irs. >> how do they do that inadvertently? >> they forgot to redact it. it was an interesting turn of events. in texas, we believe, it is standing up to washington, d.c. as the an at this time that -- antith

what does it feel to be like in the cross-hairs of the irs? we're about to find out six conservative groups say the tax agency targeted them because of their political beliefs. they will testify before congress. this is testimony you will see live here on the fox news channel. now some of these stories have been out there but many have not. there will be drama this morning. i'm bill hemmer. welcome to america's newsroom. good morning. martha: should be interesting. good morning, everybody, i'm martha maccallum. today's hearing will be before the house ways and means committee. this is the second of three we will watch this week. yesterday we had the new irs commissioner, danny werfel. he got an idea of the work cut out for him. he and the inspector general faced tough questions whether this targeting was indeed politically motivated. watch some of this from yesterday's hearing. >> do you feel like the irs has betrayed the trust of the american people? >> i do, mr. chairman. i think that's why, i'm thinking this in terms of my primary mission is

i'll get back to the irs and get to work. you think the agency deserve an apology if the direction came from above? >> greta: irs commissioner coming under fire both outside and inside the hearingering room. demanding the irs why they have not fired lois lerner. >> is she still being paid today? >> she is. >> is that your definition of accountability? >> if you would indulge me to answer the question. >> that is easy, yes or no? >> there is two stages to accountability. it's based on the facts we have now to determine who can no longer position of trust in the irs. second stage is to determine whether there was any underlying malfeasance that would warrant dismissal. we will follow the facts but we do not have completed review. >> if you don't know if there is underlying malfeasance why was skb zod resign? >> it's because of failures of management oversight. whether they were motivated.... >> they were asked to resign to restore public trust for public perception purposes? >> no, i wouldn't say that. i would say when there is

>> i think the irs is a big thing. rd to express what did the administration do, what are they doing. we see a pattern where it's worse than simply saying they accidentally fight for tea parties. you can't protest planned parenthood. the real groups having very evasive e-mails. i think it's a threat that could be bigger. if it doesn't reach any one in the white house that would be a huge deal. the biggest issue i would sees the irs is tied up in obama care. one is it is implemented or over seen by the irs. i think republicans will be able to rally around this issue tie it to obama care and that will be what the focus is. >> how many de&4ge5Ñ were for election in 2014. usually want the president to come and campaign for you. now since it's the irs they want irs investigations, too. put some of the vulnerable democrats in a tough position. >> you say how much of an impact of what this is having on president obama. the firm very well respected showed the crew rating tanking pretty bad. we will see. >> it doesn't help virtu

the irs scandal broke weeks ago but this weekend with the revelation they spend $49 million on conferences and in addition to this interview that a former irs employee gave to congressional investigators indicating that there was heavy handedness from the d.c. office, that person was no longer comfortable with. really has raised the stakes and the administrationed a this point has only fired one person. lois lerner is on leave and the former director of the irs is gone. but there has not been an effort besides comments from jay carney and other administration officials to say the white house has nothing to do with it to really indicate that they think this is a real outrage and needs to be cleaned up. the reaction seems weak and passive. >> shepard: some on the other side suggest they've said what they can say and now they're investigating and now they're having hearings and -- i don't know. i think part of what you heard from that side is, what more do you want? >> well, i mean, i think that we will see an investigation and we'll see who is culpable, but the fact that the revelations that

the irs never answered our question. instead, the irs continued questioning us. on june 22, 2009, irs agent richards sent us additional written requests as follows: please explain how all of your activities, including the prayer meetings held outside of planned parenthood, are considered educational as defined under 501(c)(3)? organizations exempt under 501(c)(3) may present opinions with scientific or medical facts. please explain in detail the activities at the prayer meetings. also please provide the percentage of your organization that spends on prayer groups as compared with the other activities of the organization. please explain in detail the signs that are being held up outside of planned parenthood, and explain how they are considered educational. when we met at our next board meeting, we were all disappointed with the irs' request. we had worked so hard to get the application correct. we had a local attorney skilled with this process helping us. we understood that we could hold up signs with educational information about abortion and the sanctity of life

he identified wrongdoing at the irs. agree with his findings, agreed that whether it's one of these organizations can any of the 298 applications that mr. levin identified from his report satisfied, 96 of them appearing to be of perhaps a political organization like the groups here today and perhaps one like texas in my hometown, which received a similar letter and has dissimilar the least of us expressed here today. whatever the political beliefs, the inspector general is right. folk should never have to worry about whether the tax collector is looking at political beliefs or activities in making a decision. the inspector general had more to say, however, after the strong opening statement of our chairman about what the reports signified. i asked him specifically if he had found any evidence of the corruption at the irs as charged. he said no, he had not. i asked since there was a charge in our hearing whether a tax system is brought at the core. he indicated no, definitely not. i asked whether there is any evidence to

i know you are new to the irs. you come from the office of management and budget and you have a great reputation. you are a budget crunch her. how on earth do you think you have the moral authority to ask for this? why would we give you all this extra money you are asking or if this is what the irs is doing with hard-earned taxpayer dollars? we are seeing waste, fraud, abuse and taxpayer targeting. this is been the case is inappropriate and should not happen. the report such a coming out that are identifying these are covering events that occur to them three years ago. ifconcern would be greater the patterns of spending are continuing today. in many cases they are not. there are deep cuts going in -- going on. take placeve them and then come back in a year or two and see if you are running this well. >> that is a fair point. there are more cuts to be made. i will furnish for you additional cut so that we can go even deeper so that every penny is what she even more closely. >> it sound like you you do not need it inc

meanwhile, the irs budget has sunk. 226% increase. the rs has a responsibility of making sure that those who apply for this status are primarily engaged in clearly the reviews were not clear. can you share with us as you are reviewing the process what should be the process to review this as part of the organizations? >> that is one of the recommendations that we have issued an and this for report and on its own. how to undergo this. it is important to note again, congresswoman, that not all organizations who operate like this do so in the event that the irs determinedetermine s whether or not there is a tax liability. they can still operate they would like to. >> thank you, mr. chairman, we will continue this discussion. >> i have to tell you that we are angry about this. >> as i come into this meeting today, there is a lot that is on my mind. you need anyone to prepare for this meeting. have you spoken with president the president about this? >> i spoke to the president on may 16 or 17 around today. we had about a 20 minute conversati

it took a year to reach the top of the irs. a year to reach the top of the treasury and a year to reach the top of the government. now i do not believe that that is true. i think all up and down the line, if they're going after the tea party folks, people are saying they're really hammering the tea party guys. and that's what congress has got to investigate. but i will say this. i don't believe white house people, the counsel or the chief of staff or the president of the unit would deliberately lie, because they would have a more endowse problem if they did. now they've got a rogue agency over there that they knew nothing about that's got 100,000 employees. >> what do you make of the fact that the former commissioner of the irs was at the white house 157 times. and at first i thought you know because they're implementing obamacare through the irs, i thought that would be a reason for them to make a number of appearances, but then you have less than 50 by hhs sa beal kbrus. she has less than 50 visits. is that a reason to be susp

it took a year to reach the top of the irs. a year to reach the top of the treasury and a year to reach the top of the government. now i do not believe that that is true. i think all up and down the line, if they're going after the tea party folks, people are saying they're really hammering the tea party guys. and that's what congress has got to investigate. but i will say this. i don't believe white house people, the counsel or the chief of staff or the president of the unit would deliberately lie, because they would have a more endowse problem if they did. now they've got a rogue agency over there that they knew nothing about that's got 100,000 employees. >> what do you make of the fact that the former commissioner of the irs was at the white house 157 times. and at first i thought you know because they're implementing obamacare through the irs, i thought that would be a reason for them to make a number of appearances, but then you have less than 50 by hhs sa beal kbrus. she has less than 50 visits. is that a reason to be susp

this falls to the irs. i think the bigger issue isn't whether we should trust the irs. i think the bigger issue is the fact that we have murky, poorly written legislation. i think if thers any kind of scandal that comes up around this, it's going to be becaus of the lemg slagislatiolegiatior >> i don't even like amacare, but should the irs be the one to enforce it? >> clearly ot. they've lost the confidence of the americanpeople, as steve points out. look, electroc medical records industry in the united states is $20 billion in size. there's a companyalled epic systems whose ceo, judy faulkner, they're in a position to get after that business. she's the o known presentative on obama's commission to look into medical records under obamacare. so i think this thing has many, many layers yet to come. it reeks. >> would you trust the irso go through your medical rerds? >> i'd feel odd being in the position of defending the irs, but i going to, and i hope they're wating. >> you just don't want to be audited, rick. face it. >> yeah, believe me. >> ahough you'd have to wait for

this was in cincinnati where the irs office is. on't think you can hold him a accountable. >> i can'tcc account for every conversation that might have had outside the white house. i can't tell how many people aÑpd time and again that the taxpayer-funded witch-hunts ended more than a year ago, tonight there are people in this studio audience that are going to say they've been targeted as recently as two weeks ago. joining me now the attorneys representing some of the americans in our studio tonight. guys, welcome, both of you, to the show. thanks. >> thank you for having us. >> sean: jay, let me start with a time here.ç? lois lerner first knew about this in june of 2011. is that right? >> that's correct. that's when she was aware of ths targeting that was taking place >> sean: after consulting with theujyñr treasury, with the whie house, we didn't hear about it o her from her until may 20th of 2013. right. and also intervening in that period of time she came up withh another criteria to have the determinations unit used for tax exem

this was in cincinnati where the irs office is. on't think you can hold him a accountable. >> i can'tcc account for every conversation that might have had outside the white house. i can't tell how many people aÑpd time and again that the taxpayer-funded witch-hunts ended more than a year ago, tonight there are people in this studio audience that are going to say they've been targeted as recently as two weeks ago. joining me now the attorneys representing some of the americans in our studio tonight. guys, welcome, both of you, to the show. thanks. >> thank you for having us. >> sean: jay, let me start with a time here.ç? lois lerner first knew about this in june of 2011. is that right? >> that's correct. that's when she was aware of ths targeting that was taking place >> sean: after consulting with theujyñr treasury, with the whie house, we didn't hear about it o her from her until may 20th of 2013. right. and also intervening in that period of time she came up withh another criteria to have the determinations unit used for tax exem

why didn't one person in the irs say, hey, this was wrong? >> the attorney general has the full confidence of the president of the united states, handling his job very well. >> when i get to a point when i think i've accomplished all the goals that i've set, i will sit down with the president, and we'll talk about a transition to a new attorney general. >> there is yet another bombshell from the government. the nsa is not only collecting your phone call data, but following every move you make on the internet. >> this is a dragnet. it's an overreach. we've got to find out why this is justified simply because of the nsa wants to do some data mining. >> greta: this is a special edition of "on-the-record." second term scandals. no party at the irs. this week, what the white house did not need, another new scandal erupts. secret surveillance programs exposed. much more ahead on how the obama administration is spying on you, but we begin with the irs. >> it's time for the irs to come clean. >> to the left. three, four. >> i'm absolutely appalled at

banger have known in cincinnati where the irs office is. i don't think you can hold him accountable. >> i can't account for every conversation that is outside of the white house. i can't tell you how many people knew. >> while we have been told time and time again the witch hunts ended there are people in this studio audience that will say they have been targeted as recently as two weeks ago. some of the americans sitting in our studio tonight the american center of law enforcement welcome both of you to the show. >> thank you for having us. >> let me start with the time line here. lois lern lois lerner, correct me if i'm wrong, first knew about this on june 11th. >> that's kofshth. that's when she was notified of the targeting taking place. >> after consulting the treasury, consulting with the white house we didn't hear about it from her and set up questions until may 10th of 2013. >> right. also she came up with another criteria used for. some of the groups in the audience with you today got put in this dragnet because of lois lerner comin

and 2004 when they were being investigated by the irs so yes i agree that there is cultural intimidation going on but it's not by the white house. it's by the my republican colleagues. that is why we demand the ig summoned back to his committee to answer questions once again under oath. we also demand the republican culture of intimidation stop so progressive groups will feel comfortable testifying before us here. the chairman's continued silence or excusing of the abuse of the groups makes it harder for these groups to come before us. we need to be a committee of facts and not a witchhunt. if we plan to get to the bottom of the investigation and hopefully, hopefully be able to tackle other legislative issues that we have coming before this committee of great importance to the country. so i demand that this republican culture of intimidation against progressive groups be stopped and that they be as outraged as we were outraged, democrats were outraged and we expressed our outrage when groups if we don't agree with politically or ideologically are being attacked or being intimidated or be

so having the irs come in wasn't a concern to me. e we targeted because of our religious beliefs? in north carolina lastn no april there wasment an attempt put foh by our state to change the constitution, to define marriage as between a man and a woman. the president came out against amendment one. my father came out supporting it. we took out some ads supportingl this. some would say, you're getting involved in politics.ral no. this is a moralssu issue. because a politician takes a moral issue doesn't mean it's a political issue.aith and people of faith have to be quiet about it. this is a moral issue.ut we're going to speak out on moral issues. is think this was an attempt to intimidate us, or maybe payback, because we spoke out on a moral issue, and that moral issue -- we prevailed in normal. the attempt -- prevailed in north carolina. >> sean: how much did this cost your ministries? >> i don't know. it's weeks of -- >> sean: weeks? >> oh, yes. preparation the document they wanted to see. it took a fairly large staff weeks to prepa

having to deal with the irs. we have to get rid of the tax system that we have and go to something simpler like a fair tax. >> briefly. in addition to the felony charges, we have to hold individuals responsible and civil little to the taxpayers whose disclosures done to pursue even if the department of justice won't. >> the answer is the rule of law must be followed, and if it is violated, it must be remedied either civilly or criminally or both. thank you. >> thank you, thank you. >> the irs needs to uniformly process their applications without opting any of the first amendments rights. >> all right. >> i'll make it easy dittoing what was said, but just firing a few people will not fix the problem, just like mr. rangel said, it's a cairns inside the agency, and it's got to be rooted out from the bottom. >> all right, thank you. ms. black is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and thank all of you for being here today. thank you for represent tennessee, but we have other groups here like the chat -- chattanoog

>> think it will take a lot for the american people to ever trust the irs because of the nature. irs has always been a scary agency. like so many of you have already committed to do a full investigation, followed through on every lead, do not stop until you get to the bottom. we need to rid this cancer. do what it is a need to do and we will be here to hold you accountable to do that. >> appreciate that because if we do not do that, one of the things i'm concerned about with my colleagues on the other side of the aisle is we do not get to the bottom of this, i have listened to the testimony of each and everyone of you -- we have already heard the chilling affect what the iris has done. you talk about the factor pamphlets were not produced. you talked about donors shying away from giving donations to your organization. that is a chilling effect and if we don't hold this community, this city accountable, where do you think it will go? do you think it will get worse or better? would you advise as to sit silently by and do what so many elected officials have done before? they might sa

do we want the irs knowing that information? ainly don't and i don't believe the majority of americans do either. >> if you love obama care and you support it and if you really want it -- it's even extraordinary to think that the irs is going to effectively deliver it. even if you get them off the hook for the targeting of conservative groups, they have shown over and over to be inept and be very poor stewards of our money by virtue of the fact that they spent money on parties. those aren't audits. those are parties. they want receipts from everybody else and so we're sort of turning that over to an organization that's not particularly shown itself to be efficient or fair or good stewards. >> you're absolutely right. i think what they did. they targeted conservative groups, they targeted folks that were not politically consistent with what this government -- big government want some of what's to keep them? they can't challenge or target all individuals regarding their health coverage. what's too cope them from targeting conservat

and since i left the irs. g the operations of the irs offices throughout the country. to sit with a couple of nincompoops in cincinnati is plain false. stuart: we haven't got the evidence yet, we don't have the memo or phone call or meeting or text, we don't have that at this point. end in the administration, in the campaign about it. >> it is circumstantial evidence. the rank-and-file agents do not make these kinds of decisions and will be targeted and what questions will be asked. the rank-and-file agents are carrying out what they're directed from above. that is the way the irs has always worked so wouldn't be surprised if we keep scratching we will find that the trail leads to the very top. stuart: joseph bannister, a former irs guy, thanks for sharing your experience. and new on the lavish spending? >> do as i say, not as i do. this $50 million the irs spends on these might have been a lot more but we will never know. they didn't keep receipts. the irs doesn't have the receipts. can you imagine that? there

but they had no incentives to ,educe the cost to the irs because the more the irs pay, the more they got. >> thank you for that clarification. >> i think the gentleman. -- i think the gentleman. -- i thank the gentleman. >> this is a long-standing problem. forworst year of spending before the5 million president even came into office. or the take away from you learndes is that from your mother and father when you study -- you spend somebody else's money, spend more carefully than your own. that would go especially for taxpayers money. ,ven if there wasn't as much it is an excessive amount of money. i would like to get to the root as to why this conference, or this training was going on. the first thing i would like to ask is that anaheim. why was anaheim chosen? where do these employees rich in question were >> -- where do these employees originate? >> it was based on the size of the conference, the number of individuals attending,. >> where did they come from? we had came from -- leaders in three-hitter 50 locations. they came across the united states. >> how many came from washingto

today, he heardrom the irs >> how did you find out that yo to the irs? >> it aared on asite by the human rights campaign, our rial politicalopponent. somebody called it to our tenti. we saw hat. redactions.wa a this was march 30thof 2012. within a few days, our compr forensic peopeen able to it came fromwithin the irs itself. >> i would say w hav seen egregius abuse, dation and mismanagement. this cannot be tolerated. we have to get to the bottom of this. we have to get to the facts of what happened. those responsible will be held the ccount under the fully under >> nice to see you, sir. good to be wth you greta. >> you had the exchange back in march, 2012n then commissioner shulman there was no targeting going on with th irs? >> it is amazing isn't it? he had an opportunity to come clean at that point in time. at this point time, t was an investigation ongoing in irs because of allegations. we know that someone in the washington office was sent down to report back as to as happening in the cincinnati and yet we heard that testimony that he absoluly denie

why didn't one person in the irs say, hey, this was wrong? >> the attorney general has the full confidence of the president of the united states, handling his job very well. >> when i get to a point when i think i've accomplished all the goals that i've set, i will sit down with the president, and we'll talk about a transition to a new attorney general. >> there is yet another bombshell from the government. the nsa is not only collecting your phone call data, but following every move you make on the internet. >> this is a dragnet. it's an overreach. we've got to find out why this is justified simply because of the nsa wants to do some data mining. >> greta: this is a special edition of "on-the-record." second term scandals. no party at the irs. this week, what the white house did not need, another new scandal erupts. secret surveillance programs exposed. much more ahead on how the obama administration is spying on you, but we begin with the irs. >> it's time for the irs to come clean. >> to the left. three, four. >> i'm absolutely appalled at

they are not even answering the phone at the irs. they are getting drunk in anaheim at that $50 million conference. but instead, the obama administration is rewarding them like sarah hall ingram. she is the one who direct the unit that targeted the obama political enemies. she is now in charge of the implementation of obamascare in the irs. like susan rice she has other obama bona fide. really you put this woman in charge of implementation of obamacare at the irs? she decides through her well earned prism of politics whether i get the mammogram or someone gets a prosthesis? and how about the other two bozos at the irs star trek conference who took gifts and food without declaring them? they are allowed to amend their w-2s because they got caught, right. the rest of us would be indicted for tax evasion. now, they get to work in healthcare enforcement in the irs. are you starting to worry yet? but don't be worried, we are protected from those terrorists and the information that we just learned about, the collection of phone data and int

, it is not discovered just within the irs. i think the question is -- i have asked the chairman about this -- i need to be able to call, to convene meetings, to give periodic updates about what we are finding so that we can collectively determine what the right answer is and analyze these facts. i think as we get more facts, we will have to figure out what happened. it is not going to be easy but it is when i think we can do collectively. >> are you prepared for the worst possible outcomes? >> that there may be a universe of people, a large number of irs employees caught in this process that have culpability? >> i am prepared to follow the facts wherever they take us. i think it is the only way to restore the trust. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i know my time has expired. >> i think we have time for another round of questions. let me start. on the one hand, i am encouraged by what you say that you want to follow the facts where they lead and you want to hold people accountable. i think that is what we all want to know. what happ

donors were released by the irs legally. the goal opponents and it is still posted on their website. would you support a legislation that they would no longer have to disclose their donors to the irs? >> i have not taught about it, i -- i really hadn't thought about it. i assume you've given that case examples to the house republicans. >> yes, we asked foran investigation a year ago, but the irs will not give us a report because they are hiding behind taxpayer confidentiality and they are saying it is confidential. they will not tell us the identity of the individuals within the irs who were responsible for that disclosure. >> my bias is in favor of as much political speech as possible with minimal amount of government interference and harassment on the left or right or anyone else. i think the last thing the american people suffer from is too little political discourse. that would be my general philosophical approach to all of these issues. there is a rational basis for groups like as not having to disclose, that is what the

the irs' reputation was still down in the tank. and republicans on the hill were doing what they should do to at least -- the irs's reputation was still down in the tank. and republicans on the hill were doing what they should be doing. i don't think any of these groups should have [indiscernible] but that is a separate issue. [applause] in terms of the -- the irs has the ability to connect with people. so we can relate to what goes on there. until all the facts come out, how much the white house knew, there does not seem to be any connection to -- connection between the white house and what happened at the iris. the -- at the irs. the ap is an important issue. it is safe to say that you can find republicans now who are the root variance. in terms of a subpoena, ap should have been told in advance. but i don't know the intricacies. but it is sort of an inside the beltway sort of issue than an issue that appeals broadly to the public. from a political standpoint, it is important for the white house to get beyond these things and get

is this limited to the irs? the stories about people having osha and atf and fbi starting investigations on them, it has american citizens scared to death of what their government is capable of doing once they have crossed the threshold they have crossed here. afraidns are darn right of what is going on. we have got to restore the credibility of government and servants of the people, rather than our masters, as my colleague said. the number of stories i am getting the indicate those greater concerns is deeply troubling. >> all right. >> an answer to your question, definitely yes. >> all right. >> and yes also. they had asked us to please explain in detail the activities and our prayer meetings. also please provide the percentage of time your organization spends on prayer groups as compared with the other activities in our organization. >> i would agree with the ig report, but i was disturbed that on page 20 the irs listed seven questions that they deemed inappropriate. however, many of the questions that i was as

for other than just informs to the irs. it is not supposed to be used to target the donors? it is your view that the administration illegally targeted americans because of their political views and they tried to do this to nail their political opponents, leading up to an election year? >> look, i think that's a lot of assumptions. what we know for a fact is that the irs, through its withholding of exempt status for all of these conservative groups -- i represent a number of them -- with the type of questions that they ask of these groups, pending the applications. the irs was asking for things that they should have never asked. they should have never asked for donors if you had candidate forms and these kind of questions. all of this had the effect of chilling the free speech and association of these conservative groups. we know for a fact that it was happening only to conservative organizations? it didn't have to liberal groups. they say there are 300 conservative groups. what about move on dot org. >> well they have really

it came from the irs. matter what side of the political spectrum you're on, if the government is targeting and attempting to intimidate political opponents, today it can be us, the next day, it could be the other side of the aisle. it has to stop. it's profoundly un-american. we've been screaming from the mountaintops for the last year about this and i am just very glad that congress is moving forward, that the american people are seeing what is going on. and at the end of the day, we need answers. we've done repeated freedom of information act requests to see if anything has been found out and we've been stonewalled. we need congress to move forward. we need a thorough investigation and we need to know if this goes -- how high this goes. it's not at all encouraging this was given to a cochair of president obama' reelection campaign. that's wrong and we need answers and we need them quickly. >> lori, when you hear the administration leaked to news outlets this is two rogue employees in cincinnati and there

we need to abolish the irs and together we can get it done! te of the tea party rally outside the capitol, protesting irs targeting of conservative groups. conservative groups. the state of the tea party now as compared to back when it became a force in national politics in 2009 and 2010? charles? >> it tells you the harassment persecution as with historically religious secs increases the fervour. this is going to help to revive the tea party. it never went away but it was at its peak in the 2010 election, 2009 and 2010. but i think it tells the world, americans that it's alive and well. and, you know, it's interesting the history of how the elite media and, you know, elite has looked at them ridiculed the tea party as a bunch of yahoos and then it demonized them, guys out to shoot you. there is a shooting in aurora and who does abc and nbc look at? looks at the list of tea party people to see if the name will match. it's assumed it's angry white male and now all of a sudden it's been harassed. so you only harass an element as was harassed by t

the taxpayers to they could party. and now two irs employees headed to the door. the acting commissioner placing to employees on administrative leave. >> one more example of the kinds of problems that we have from the world's largest, most powerful and most feared tax dough election agency. a monster. out of control. too big. too powerful and needs to be re reined in. >> their inability to grasp fiscal discipline cannot be mixed with a training memo or inspector general's report. it is cultural. it is character laden and it is moral and they need to be eviscerated as a department. >> this was not the an accident. this is a willful act of intimidation to discourage a point of view you. >> these people are, indeed, victims and they needed to be treated like victims, not accused of being part of the problem. >> a "wall street journal" nbc news poll released late yesterday shows 55% believe the irs targeting of conservative groups raised questions about the regime's overall honesty and integrity but obama had nothing to do with it. >> we

he's assembled an enemies list for the irs to use. he's responsible for the death of foreign service officers in libya. he's evil personified. his spokesman is a paid liar. you name it, he's evil through and through. reince priebus and the party he runs has one creed. one secular religion. barack obama should not be president. he must be denied that distinction in history. he must have an asterisk put next to him in the history books saying this guy wasn't really president of the united states. this is what this bunch wants. and everything they say shows it. instead of debating policies and engaging in clean politics, they throw mud because, and i get it, mud is all they got. and the only thing that unites them right now, the republican party, the only thing that holds them together is that this guy, barack obama, is president, and it kills them to go to bed at night knowing there's nothing they can do about it but pout. and throw mud. and today he's decided to face them down. he sees, well, let's see how he does it. eugene robinson is

this is not just limited to the irs. all these unionized bour rockcracys, i say, them, basically think the same way. do they not? am i being unfair? >> i won't use the term fifth column, larry. i will say it is a special interest group charged with pursuing the public interest. that's the problem. they do not want smaller government. they do not want the government to have a stronger goerkt hand with the unions. they do not have the same interest in lower taxes an than the american does, because it's their bread and dollars. government workers unions be a huge part of our bureaucracy, that's problematic. you see it in the donation, the national treasury employees union, something like 95% of that union's campaign contributions last election when to the trats. >> one wonders about the relationship of the person running that union and the goings on and the white house. ileana unionson, have you ever heard of a republican government union that might be fair? is there such a thing? it's an oxymoron. seriously, have you ever h

there's going -- what's good about the irs? what have they done well. >> apparently line dancing but it didn't look too well did it. >> congressman -- >> i was going to say the folks in cincinnati were asked who gave them the order and they would not respond. >> hopefully we'll get to the bottom of that. thank you, sir. nice to see you. >> thank you. >>> trying to get more answers from the active irs commissioner. >> mr. commissioner, can you just tell us how you plan to implemented the transparency? we heard a lot about it. how will we implemented it? >> we just answered a lot of questions in the hearing. we'll answer more questions going forward. right now i'm going to get back to the irs and get to work. >> what was your reaction to the videos, sir? did you see the videos? >> as i mentioned we just answered a lot of questions and we'll answer more questions going forward. plenty of time to do press interviews but right now it's most important that i get back to work. >> do you believe the agents in cincinnati deserve an apolo

it's 5:00 in new york city, and this is the 5. irsance but today itas the victims' turn to speak and none of them pleaded the fifth, by the way. six americans who were targeted for their politicaleliefs by the irs told their stori to congress. here's one of them. becky garrettson, president of a tea party group in alabama. >> this was not an accident. this is a willful act of intimidation to discourage a point of view. what the government did to our little group in