it's not just the isi. i think it is the old job that needs to shift the direction. >> on this side, the gentleman. >> my question is about the raymond davis case. is there any evidence that the two people killed were with the isi? there is rumors about this? >> karen r. arturo, would you like to venture into that? >> i have seen conflicting reports. i don't know. >> i don't either. i have no idea. >> i will make it unanimous. i don't -- i've seen more speculation on both sides. the question here, who has got the microphone? >> my question is a simple and straightforward that bombay bombing case has been concluded in india and a related collection in chicago. why doesn't the intelligence community and the u.s. government shut off the pressure in pakistan government? and the third segment of the case about the bombing, that might bring out more so that we may know something inside of the isi from that. >> i'm not sure what your -- you are asking who should be taking this out? what trial? >> [inaudible] >> [in

pakistan is obviously very proud of the isi. e pakistani state. as i said, it's in charge of foreign intelligence, but also to a great extent domestic intelligence. it coordinates the intelligence function of all three military services, the army, the navy and air force. it conducts surveillance over its own people and those of interest inside and outside of the country, and it's also very importantly charged with protecting pakistan's interest as a regional power base in south asia. and that i think is a subject that has led to a lot of the problems now. protecting pakistan as a regional power base has meant many things. it meant when the soviet union occupied afghanistan, right next door, pakistan and the isi saw it in their interest to cooperate with the united states and others in funding, training and in pakistan's case providing facilities on the ground for the mujahideen forces who were fighting the soviet occupiers. it means pakistan undertook a similar strategy facing off india and kashmir and set up groups of militant f

is this the army and isi? ere are no representatives of the people to determine the policy, whether it is terrorism or with respect to india and the united states. the question is whether it is constitutional within the pakistani law for either side to determine pakistan's foreign policy. if it is not, what does that make isi? and the pakistani people, if they are looking for people responsible for the state in pakistan, where it has enemies within and without, if this is the result of the foreign policy, who is responsible? who is in control and whether it is constitutional? >> it is a question of decision making. who makes the decisions on policy. >> if i could try. politics a bore is a vacuum. -- abhors a vacuum. when a refuses' responsibility and refuses to direct the military one where the other, then the military steps in and starts making those decisions. in the case of operations in the province, in 2008, there was a joint resolution. at the end of that, the army chief was made council. he was given ful

life subject and i tried in "blood money" to tell the crazy story about the isi and themutually destructive two scorpions in a bottle kind of relationship that they have. that said i do have to say this is a novel. it wouldn't be fun to read if it wasn't reinvented, if it wasn't real life reinvented in the mind of the author. >> let's start with the cia. you've got a cia operation and you have these guys often on their own, often in businesses as fronts. i always thought cia offices were at the embassy, you didn't know who they were you could make againsts about them. is it true there are lots of cia offices around who have covers in private business and trading companies and things like that all over the world? >> it's increasingly true. when you and i were getting started as journalists and the past decades it's been the case most cia officers sought what was called official covers and the representatives and other international organizations. that was acceptable when the target was soviet diplomats, cocktail parties, spot them, try to develop them but the targets are

i have spent lots of time with the isi. i've traveled with them to south waziristan. h their director general, general pasha. as i said in "time" magazine the other week, i even have an e-mail correspondence with isi officers. so i do know the real-life subject. and i've tried, in "bloodmoney," to tell a story that gets at the crazy relationship between the isi and the cia, this absolutely fascinateding often mutually destructive two scorpions in a bottle kind of relationship that they have. that said, i do have to say this is a novel. it wouldn't be fun to read if it wasn't reinvented, if it wasn't real life reinvented in the mind of the author. >> but let's start with the cia. you've got a cia operation. and you have these guys often on their own, often in businesses as fronts. you know, i always thought cia officers were at the u.s. embassy. while you didn't know who they were, you could make guesses about pem this is it true that there are lots of cia officers around who have covers in private business and trading companies and things like that all over the world i

>> well, the isi guards its secrets extremely jealously and not just the isi but the military itselfakes great umbrage when some of its internal information leaks out into the media, and there's been a lot of that going on, particularly in the recent years as he was saying, there's been a tremendous out growth of the broadcast media, in particular as well as the print media that are competing for space in pakistan. so they try to get to the source of 95 leaks. now, it's quite possible that this may have been behind this murder. it's also possible that some of the al qaeda elements may have been behind this. we don't know. the prime minister says he has ordered an inquiry. but such inquiries within pakistan have never reallyieded any results. there is a lg tradition of burying the truth in the files and forgetting about them. >> are reporters in pakistan who are writing about sensitive subjects living in a certain fear that somehow, someone in the government, whether the leadership of the government knows or not, might come down on them? >> absolutely. and not just the government but

interviews we conducted, i would say the talibs felt that they needed the support of the isi to conduct their campaign and, of course, a campaign which has had to escalate to meet the escalation from the coalition side. the stro feeling amongst the tali is at the isias very heavy influence over their movement. and they believe that that exists at a local level, and at a senior level, in terms of the leadership. what they talk about is the ability of the isi to penalize or to punish those who do not act in accordance with its wishes. >> smith: the taliban commander we interviewed said that if pakistan chose to, it could rrest us a in hour." >> grey: how does the pakistan government put pressure on the taliban? >> smith: at best, pakistani pressure othe talibahas en selective. the military has left the haqqani network almost untouched in the tribal area of north waziristan. us military sources told frontline the pakistanis are unwilling to take them on. >> there are hundreds of groups operating in that area. you know, we have to mobilize resources, maybe cool down the other pla

kashmir and doing the dirty work of the isi. in recent years is a lot of groups have bitten them in the you know what. a lot of those groups carry outerorout terror attacks. the isi is a mysterious group. the government doesn't know what they're doing half the time. that's a criticism. it's like the cia running around and doing all sorts of things, and the government not finding out what it was doing. very suspicious group. you had osama bin laden living, you know, a two-minute drive from a military installation in an area controlled by or has links with this militant group. >> last thing, are we getting any response to this isi reporting from the isa or pakistani government? >> they're denying it. the group is denying it. they say we didn't have contact with him. they did have contact with al qaeda over the years. they set up joint training camps and had a lot of links, and osama bin laden knew the leader of this group. they had no contact with osama bin laden in recent years. you take that with a grain of salt. >> michael hoeml

but little attention was paid to the behavior of isis' mother, who had said at the trial that isis wasuffering from a cold when she dropped her off at the lopez home. dr. vas also testified that, in the months before isis died, she had come to rely on the lopez family to help take care of her children. >> i won't even say "baby-sit," because they were basically living with us. when she would bring the children to the house, 99% of the times, they were in diapers, and we had to clothe them. >> thompson: so the doctor would bring over her children for you guys to baby-sit, and she wouldn't bring clothes for them, is that what you're telling me? >> yes, sir. did i feel like it was odd? yes, i did. >> thompson: the lopezes were not the first people to take care of the children. lorrie word was dr. vas's live-in nanny at this home for nearly a year. in a 2006 affidavit, word said she feared that veronica vas put the children at risk. and she said the doctor drank heavily while pregnant with isis. >> well, the day that she went into labor, veronica and her friend had cracked open a bottle of

rather disturbingly, it raised questions about potential involvement of the pakistani secret service, the isiin his testimony, it should be said that headley had admitted 12 charges related to the mumbai attacks and has agreed to put the prosecution to avoid the death penalty. in his testimony, he said he carried out surveillance for them for the potential mumbai targets and potential targets in denmark and the isi had offered to fund the surveillance. when he acquired several hours of video, he handed it over both to lashka his isi handlers. this follows hot on the heels on the u.s. discovery of osama bin laden hiding in plain sight, as it were, just a few miles from the pakistani capital islamabad. >> are the disappointed on the not guilty verdict? >> they are disappointed in that he was acquitted of the most serious charge, which is direct involvement in the mumbai attacks. nevertheless, he is expected to face a very stiff sentence and a date is yet to be set for that hearing. >> the man picked by president obama to become the next u.s. defense secretary says he may ask washington to maint

they don't know the motivation behind these arrests of the isi. t that even domestically here there's mistrust for an institution. the pakistani military, the powerful institution. there's mistrust for that. and that's been unprecedented. >> fran, though, just from an operational standpoint, it doesn't send a good message to those in the future who might be thinking about working with u.s. intelligence in a country to hear that somebody who rented an apartment for a cia operatives or who was taking down license plates for folks going in and out of bin laden's compound can be arrested and nothing be done to help them. >> reporter: well, that's right, anderson. if it is true that nothing can be done to help them. let's be honest. the thing that makes this the most difficult now is not only that these are pakistani citizens but the fact that it is now public. this is the sort of issue that is best handled out of the public eye. and so what you hope for is they're able to speak behind the scenes -- if there are people who cooperated and helped the u.s.

their security service, the isi has close ties to former and current jihadists. they helped fund and start the taliban to fight the russians back in afghanistan. they funded and started l.e.t., the people who did the mumbai attacks in india. as a counterweight to indian power. all those groups have connections to each other. the experts believe that they would be -- and they are inclined to plan operations against the west, both at home and abroad. so the question becomes then, how vulnerable is the pakistani arsenal? how might someone get a nuclear bomb? well, there's several ways. you can have a rogue officer taking over a facility. you could have the clan desti d destined -- clandestined powers. or you could have my scenario where a a bomb in transit from its secured facility to the front lines in a nuclear alert to india is stolen because that's where it's most vulnerable. so anyhow, you have a combination of weapons. a country which is hostile, a security service which has ties to jihadists and a lot of jihadists have been indoned by the establishment militar

i had them on the kitchen table, and i had isis in her swing. she had her bottle but she wasn't eating it. so i got her out of the swing, and i went to go put her in the crib. and i went to the kitchen. i left her in the crib, and when i went back in there, i noticed that isis-- she was limp. she was just there, and her lips were blue. >> is she breathing right now? >> okay, i need you to keep doing cpr. >> thompson: ernie lopez' mother, rosa lopez, lived across the street. >> we started hearing sirens. that sticks in my mind, you know, that that was the beginning of the nightmare-- the sirens, the fire trucks, and then later on, the ambulance. ( sirens wailing ) >> i hit her on her thigh, on her leg, trying to get her attention. and i shook her a little bit. i jiggled her a little bit. i put my ear to her chest, and i heard her heart, just beating, just racing. >> thompson: ernie's brother eddie was called in. >> my mom came over, talked to me, and told me, "hey, could you go up to the hospital?" and i said, okay, so i drove on to the hospital.

he was hiding in the heartland of pakistan probably protected by the isi. everything but that last statement is now a fact. he was right about pakistan. >> i think if they made -- if i might turn to afghanistan, that is not just the issue. it is 2015. cars die as either change the constitution, or he is gone. no one has emerged under karzei as a strong, confident leader. any of us who have met some of the other would-be afghan leaders have good reason to be cautious about what comes next. who in the south has what political status? house separate are they? how is the network fitted into the taliban generally? is the threat still real? is omoaar still alive? how much of the central government has evolved in a positive direction? a lot of polls indicate that basically it has not improved in popularity as a result of the new strategy nationally. it just in the areas where we now provided added security in the south and kandahar. what is the status of the northern groups in afghanistan? having had two failed elections, won for president and one for parliament, a

conclusions did you reach after these conversations about who knew what either in the military or the isi? >> will secretary gates has spoken and i will reaffirm, i've seen nhing that would indicate that they knew anything. >> charlie: anybody? >> that anybody in the military. >> charlie: how do square that, that he had to have according to the president, a support. >> i think he clely had a support group of somsort in orr tobe able to survive there. and actually we were aware of his couriers, but again, and i'm privy now to an awful lot of what we've seen as a result of what he had in his, where hewas living. and i just haven't seen anything yet tt would confirm that anybody in a senior posion had y idea -- >> charlie: he was the underlying senior there. >> i would say that now but i just haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe, any evidence that the isi knew about it, that the military knew about it. who would be the two principals. >> charlie: even though it was near the military base and even though it stood out as a building? >> i mean i understand what you're saying. i g

but during his short 11-month ten your as director general of the isi, the united states found him doingtwo things. one, blowing up the indian embassy in kabul, and we had their hands all over it, and, two, telling every target of our drone strikes in 2007 and '8, in 2007 and 2008, that the americans are coming, you'd better get out of the way. talk about duplicity being caught, we caught this one. he was promoted to be a corps commander in the pakistani military. and, of course, the third event that led to the downturn in u.s. relations in the 2008 was the mumbai terrorist operation. i think the obama administration deserves credit for coming in with it eyes wide open. i think it deserves credit for trying to reset u.s.-pakistani relations, but i think the task from the beginning was daunting, indeed. for the reason that tony has laid out quite well. fundamental differences in national security outlook, fundamental differences in world outlook, fundamental doubts about each other and fundamentally different interests in many ways. those things are not easily changed even by large aid bu

but our relationship with the pakistans with the isi with the government.rom all right, to testy to dysfunctional. we have to remember, we conducted an operational unilateral operation on their turf for perfectly good reason with obviously terrific outcome. but if you reverse this. and you say what if a foreign nation carried out that same type of operation on our turf. i guarantee you, we would do the same thing, we would try to identify if local citizens had supported that foreign nation in carrying out that aid. >> sure. it's humiliating. and secretary gates kind of described it recently as a bad marriage. we mentioned that the isi probably hopes to get information about the raids specifically. but don't you think they're also talking to these guys trying to get information about covert operations on behalf of the cia or other american forces in their country? >> right. that's where they're eventually going to run up against a brick wall. >> you think so? >> in all honesty, well, i think what will happen is, anytime you're operating in a foreign country,

the glaring question why is the isi going after cia inform aebts if indeed the isi was on board in u.s. efforts to go after bin laden. you think they praise these men, not arrest them. the fact they arrest them suggests they may not have been happy with what they did. it's too early to tell what they plan to do with these men. but, again, they fuel the big question that never seems to go away. is pakistan washington's friend or do they, at times, deceive the u.s. by playing a double game. >> reza, let's talk about that. what do you think this means for u.s.-pakistani relations. it's deteriorated quite a bit. are they telling you on the pakistani side that the cooperation is over? we'll do what we want to do here? >> well, the rhetoric on record is positive. but it doesn't square with what's happening on the ground. the fact is, this relationship is at a low point. there's deep mistrust. friction and all sorts of finger pointing. last weekend, head of the cia, leon panetta came in here reportedly with evidence that the colluding with militants. we can go on and on and on. the bottom lin

. >> could this has been the most secret lair ever and number in the isi knew anything about it? at's what this cell phone is speaking to right now. they picked up the courier's phone. the courier and they got ms. phone. obviously, that was one of the first pieces of material that picked up out of that compound they analyzed. anytime you have a cell phone, you have to work it immediately. you're looking for operational, actionable intelligence. also in this was evidence after forensic review that there had been communications with this group, harakah-ul-mujahedeen, which is an organization that we know about their linkages to al qaeda and they're collaboration and assistance back and forth with al qaeda. the interesting thing about harakah-ul-mujahedeen is it was essentially established as were other groups in the '80s and '90s under the tutelage and training and guidance of the pakistani intel service. you have this linkage between harakah-ul-mujahedeen, al qaeda and the isi. to what degree can they piece those communications together to hoe definitively? they're not a smoking gu

why is the isi arresting informants for the cia when they were supposed to be on board with u.s.fforts to go after bin laden? we caution we don't have a lot of details but, if, indeed, these men are in trouble, it further clouds that big pressing question that never goes away. is pakistan a u.s. friend or, at times, do they deceive the u.s. by playing a double game. >> increases the tension between the u.s. and pakistan. reza, thanks. >>> a battle is brewing over presidential powers in labia. house speaker john boehner says the white house needs to explain this costly mission to congress. cnn's brianna keilar is joining us to talk more about this. the whole thing could come to a head today, right? >> reporter: it could be the white house is set to essentially defend u.s. military involvement in libya to congress. the white house saying this will probably happen today. congress, of course, and we are talking democrats and republicans, have had a lot of questions about the u.s. military involvement in libya. some of the questions we expect to be answered today, why the president ha

the isi has used the war in afghanistan for its own purposes. isi being the military intelligence element which is not complete under the control of the government, one would say. the government, the civilian government is weakened and pretty corrupt. and pakistan has for the fastest publishing growth rates in the world. and also one of the fastest widening gaps between rich and poor in the world. and it's a nuclear state, nuclear power. so, we have a very strong interest in it not being destabilized, and not becoming a fundamental state. if you think that's impossible, you need to look back at history at general halleck who was a fundamentalist and he didn't have nuclear weapons. he mysteriously died in an airplane crash along with the u.n. ambassador. but they have a history of having a fundamentalist in charge of that country. and it would be a different world indeed if they take over the nuclear weapons supply. and they're very suspicious, as what we're really focused on and that we intend to take those nuclear weapons away from them. so this

why is the cia going after these informants for the cia and if indeed the isi was onboard with u.s. forts to go after bin laden? you would think they would be praising the informants and fact they are arresting them suggest they are not happy with what they did. if that's the case, john, it further clouds that question that doesn't seem to be going away. is pakistan a friend of the u.s.? is it an ally? or is it at times deceiving the united states and with a double game? >> it begs the question that we know pakistani governments are not happy the united states conducted the raid without telling them. begs the question could this be payback? >> reporter: yes. it is no secret the pakistani security establishment has been seething from the bin laden raid to the fact they came in, navy s.e.a.l.s, took unilateral action on pakistany soil, an embarrassment for the pakistani security establishment. they faced unprecedented pressure here at home. that's why some view this action as the pakistani security establishment standing up against the u.s., hitting back, and even if it means it is und

>> ali, pakistani security officials confirmed to cnn that the isi, pakistan's top spy agencies have arrested several suspected informants for the cia. these are pakistani men who allegedly help the cia, fed it information before the big raid on the bin laden compound last month. "the new york times" is reporting one of these individuals is an army major who, as you mentioned, was apparently writing down license plates of cars going in and out of the compound. one of our sources, a pakistani security official, flatly denies among the men arrested is an army officer. we also know that among the men arrested were men staying at a safe house near the bin laden compound. this was a safe house rented by the cia that served as a lookout for the compound. the details are minimal but when you look at these developments, lots of questions first and foremost, what's the isi, pakistan's top spy agency, doing arresting informants when they're supposed to be on board with efforts to look for bin laden and capture them. you would think they would be applauding these individuals, commending them, no

the isi has rounded up a handful of people who helped the cia find osama bin laden. just about 90 miles from here. among those rounded up include a doctor who was an active duty major in the pakistani military and that is deeply embarrassing that one of the military members here for the military was working for the cia. now, the army says it denies that story and says no major has been picked up. another person who has been picked up is the owner of the safe house that the cia used to spy on bin laden. that safe house according to a pakistani intelligence official only a few hundred yards away from bin laden's compound. now, the cia and isi have viewed each other with a lot of mistrust since the raid happened and this will only increase that mistrust and increase the feeling that the cia and isi aren't working together toward the same goal. george? >> that's right, nick. last week a u.s. official was asked are the pakistanis cooperating, one to ten, he said only three cooperate in the fight against terrorism. in that raid it turned up evidence he wanted to attack tra

forces in libya can do it meanwhile russia's foreign minister sergei lavrov has voiced his fears that the isis actions could damage attempts to be in conflict. music of the city with the international commission which visited libya found that war crimes were committed by government forces as well as some of the opposition fighters so we hope that the investigation will be fair non politicized and lawful on the political side of the matter i hope his words will negatively affect the efforts to bring a peaceful solution to this conflict leadership i'm looking for well russia says the crisis in syria should be resolved through dialogue and once the violence to be stopped because russia's presidential envoy to africa met with syrian activists here in moscow says peter other has the details. it's important to stress that this isn't any fishel visit from the syrian opposition although members of the group they do call themselves syrian opposition in attendance here in moscow's also people from n.g.o.s it human rights groups know they've come to the russian capital to call on russia to put more press

you have retired military in the community surrounding the compound, and you have isi agencies in the area as well. this is not in normal house. it was a large compound, very heavily fortified, very suspicious looking and a very sort of military area. it leads me to the question or the relationship but pakistan where do we go from here because in my judgment it's hard for anybody to believe they didn't know he was there and the question is what little did the pakistan government know about this? i believe either the are complicity or they are incompetent. either composite with providing material support to the most wanted terrorist by providing him a safe haven or confidence in not knowing he was there. so with that, let me throw that question now first to do in terms of what is your assessment of this picture? and how does this affect the and and that our relationship with a very dicey pakistan who has been known to proliferate nuclear weapons? >> thank you, mr. chairman. first i would associate myself with your observations and analysis. i think you described well. the circumstantia

the 1980s when the isi, that was the argument through most of the first half, three quarters of this decade. the formula of the cia would repeat endlessly is that the isi is our most important ally in the war against al qaeda and our most difficult ally in the war against al qaeda. they would point to others whom we had gotten through assistan assistance. that has changed. that has changed in the last year, it certainly has changed under the life of the raymond davis affair. and abbottabad circa changed even more. my former colleagues are spending even more time that i am trying to answer my question, clueless, complicit. because for them even more up close and personal question. it's that advocate changes as it has, that leads in essence the uniform military which is arguing the case that we need them for the supply line and, you know, i had a drink with kayani last night. usually an okay guy. he's not as bad as he thinks. the departure of gates and the arrival of leon panetta will bring with him the new cia view i think it's also bad news for pakistan. the principle defender engage

some lawmakers continue to insist they believe the pakistani government or the isi or both knew about the whereabouts about bin laden. lawmakers and other critics question whether the u.s. should continue to give pakistan $2 billion a year in military aid. joining us now for more on this christine fare with georgetown university center for peace and security studies. thank you for coming on. what do you make of the arrest of the cia informants? >> it just underscores how divergent the priorities are of the americans and the pakistanis. the pakistanis found it to be a higher priority to go after and arrest the people who facilitated the capture of bin laden rather than it would seem prioritizing those that enabled bin laden's stay in pakistan for so long, it does illustrate the day vur junt they both have. this is all appearance. we don't know what they are or are not doing with trying to figure out who helped bin laden stay in the country. it's pakistan's sovereign duty who is it to help facilitate operations on behalf of a foreign intelligent agency. this is important when one consid

why has the isi been arresting informants for the cia when they were supposed to be onboard with u.s. efforts to go after bin laden? you would think they would praise and commend these men instead of arresting them. the fact that they have arrested them suggests that they may not be happy with what they did. we caution that there's not a lot of detail about these arrests. we still don't know why these men were picked up. but if, indeed, they're in trouble with pakistani authorities, it's going to fuel suspicion again about pakistan's commitment to the u.s. fight against extremists. and once again, it could ignite more questions about pakistan's intelligence agency. whether it's a u.s. friend or playing a deceptive double game. reza sayah, cnn, islamabad. >>> let's get white house reaction now. more on the concerns of whether pakistan is really a reliable ally in the war on terror. dan lothian is working this story for us. how are they dealing with this over there, dan? >> reporter: wolf, today during the white house briefing with jay carney, he was describing this relationship between

"the new york times" reporting five of those informants were arrested by the isi, pakistan's intelligencet least one was an army major. the sensitive information surfaced last week when in a closed meeting of the senate intelligence committee director michael morel rated three out of ten pakistan's cooperation with ameri america. in the past the pakistanis have tried to limit drone flights to rural areas. the drones have to be moved to bases in afghanistan. the pakistani army now says it has arrested 30 to 40 people. some have been released. but it says no army major or any army personnel were among the arrests. one of those arrested was the man who rented a safehouse to the cia to observe bin laden's compound before the raid and a western diplomatic source telling cbs news today there's a strong feeling in the isi that they have been, quote, stabbed in the back by the cia, which didn't trust them enough to tell them of the raid on bin laden ahead of time. >> now here's chris. >> now the latest on a government lawsuit over jobs and labor unions. a judge is holding hearings in seattle to d

into a lot of them because it was too dangerous for them to come so that mean they were not under the isithe other side of the story is that the pakistanis play a key role in this. evybody knowshis,t's the ephant in the room. it will be interesting to see if the president addressesthat in any way. but clearly, if you could bring pressure on a combination of sticksnd carrots on the pakistanis, i think you have a window of opportunity to negotiate a minimal acceptable accord. >> charlie: therefore you think with this level of withdrawal, he's wrong at this time? >> i don't think whether it's 10,000 or 20,000 troops really makes a huge difference at the end of the day. there's a lot, it has aot me to do with the size of the taliban in the field, and most importantly, whether they can sustain this war across the border from pakistan. >> it has a lot to do with pakistan as jim said and that's where you really run into trouble and that's where i agree with richard on this particularly because since the osama bin laden raid, you've had a massive move, you know, a massive anti-american move in th

do i believe that the isi could find him if they really wanted to? yes.o concerned about is when there were joint operations set up on two ied factories, the people making the ied in the factories were warned and disappeared before the pakistani troops got there. that's a big problem, because it says we can't trust you. let me say, i think we want to trust. we want to believe that we can work together with this nation. it is important that we do so. but, you know, we suffered a big blow at 9/11. no american forgets it. i remember it like it was yesterday, what happened. and we would expect pakistan to do the same thing if the situation was reversed. it hasn't been, and the united states doesn't do that kind of thing. >> what would it do if the pakistanis -- and you suspect that are some who are harboring, helping ayman al zawahiri hide out. if the pakistanis, you know what they decided to do? help the united states get the new leader of al qaeda, who probably was just as involved in 9/11 as bin laden was himself. is there any chance the pakistani governme

come back to the underlying core facts, this has to define a new low for the relationship between the isiret intelligence agency and the cia. even though we probably know there are people here feeding information to foreign intelligence agencies, if they're partners not allies as you point out, we're not going to will fully pick them up and interrogate them and charge them unless the relationship is so fraught that you're just presuming you're not going to work together anymore. >> it's a poke in the eye of the u.s. government and of the cia. the other news is that the fact that we supposedly gave them some information about a bomb making factory that was making ieds being moved into afgh afghanist afghanistan. when the pakistanis moved on this of course the facilities were supposedly empty. somebody had been tipped off. the problem here is that we're both in this fight. pakistan, the government in islamabad is as much in the crosshairs of the extremists and terrorists as the united states is. if things go bad in afghanistan, it hurts pakistan. pakistan is riding this extremist tiger. whe

it is probably protected by the isi. he was right. if i may turn their. -- there. >> karzai has either change the constitution are he is done. no one has it under karzai as a strong and confident leader. many of us have met it. they have good reasons to be extremely cautious about what comes next. you now considers the statements? how separate visit from the northern pressure? how does it work again? is it still real? how much is the central government involves in it? it is just in the areas where they can now provide the security. what is the status of the northern thing in afghanistan? having had two failed elections, won for parliament's in having created the legislative body that has no clear function, even if it is properly elected, what actually evolves? we cannot answer a simple one of those questions. it is more than anyone should have articulated in afghanistan or the administration. i would suggest that we need to look beyond this as quickly as possible. it is something people forget again and again. for us to act we need mon

actually, before the soviets invaded afghanistan there were intelligence operations by both pakistan, the isi, possibly the saudis and the cia where they were paying people, islamic militants, to kill afghani policemen and soldiers. this is before the soviets invaded. and there had been a number of attacks. and then at a certain point the afghanis asked -- because they had a treaty with the soviet union -- they asked for help, because they thought their government was being overthrown. so, in other words, this narrative is that, essentially, the soviet union was kind of trapped, so it's a struggle between empires. the soviet and the american empire and the people who suffered were the afghani people. >> there's no doubt that what you're talking about is absolutely true. in fact, our first book, "invisible history: afghanistan's untold story," goes into great detail about the true nature of the activity that the united states was involved in preceding the soviet invasion. in fact, actually, the original activities that the united states got involved in was as early as 1973 through pakistan. th

the most -- probably the most frustrating aspect of this whole issue, we had known for years that the isi had contacts and relations with the taliban, the haqqani network, in particular. and part of that we abandoned pakistan years ago with the so-called pressler amendment. it seems to me to restore confidence in our relationship with pakistan, they have to make certain steps and we have to sort of set up some benchmarks what we expect. after all, united states is investing billions and billions are dollars in pakistan, and we have -- tax payers have a right to have a return on that. so, i want to, and i think we will, set up some benchmarks for afghanistan, add the same kind of thing we did with iraq and benchmarks with pakistan that we really expect them to meet. and it's going to be very difficult obviously if the enemy has sanctuary. >> do you see any hope getting this relationship on any decent footing? >> i do. but part of it has to do with the pakistanis belief in the length and death of our commitment. if they think we're leaving, they have to stay in the neighborhood. and it's th

to islamabad, reportedly showed evidence the pakistani military may be clueding with insurgents, the isi has kicked out most u.s. military trainers. they're not sharing as much intelligence. lawmakers are calling on funding to be reduced and the list goes on and on. the question is, what kind of solution is there for these two countries who need one another to improve their relationship? and at this point no one teams to be coming up with an answer, zain. >> cnn's reza sayah reporting from islamabad. >>> inside the mind of a revolutionary, we'll take a look next. >>> and in tennis serena williams tries to get back in the swing after a year on the sidelines. >> looking pretty good. >> she looks really good. fore! no matter what small business you are in, managing expenses seems to ...get in the way. not anymore. ink introduces jot. a real time expense app that lets you track and categorize expenses on the go. so you can get back to the business you love. jot, the latest innovation from chase. only for ink customers. download at chase.com/ink [ laughs ] not funny. act my age? -why? -why? -

they're almost the official government salaries is the question if isi would not be involved in iraq it. it is understood as a criminal enterprise but it is important to realize the ambiguity and the nature of the haven bin laden found is not by itself unusual. from india's perspective there are 546 listed terrorists living in the country under circumstances sometimes there fugitives are difficult to find but many heavy their embedded two or have been charged with mass killings on indian soil. the pattern is a look at rages to the united states but but circumstance by themselves are not unusual but would this by way of challenging? it is a useful wake-up call. the fundamental problem is but five partner or buy phone, is difficult to hold accountable by halting direct those questions. >> but this is an opportunity to work with the effective group that the united states and pakistan to not see that mcorp and security questions the same way and to try to hold the military at a greater account although acknowledging the sacrifices they have made with their own war on terror. >> it also ca

. >> we've always talked about lower levels of the isi that may have connections but now you have a brigadier, highest-ranking senior officer arrested in pakistan and being held for links to a banned group in pakistan. >> yeah. this is quite striking. for the reason you say, very senior guy, a brigadier general, and with a very nasty organization. >> it's called -- i had never heard of it. called hizba al tarir? >> founded in the 1950s i think in jerusalem. really one of the original pan islamic terrorist organizations in a way a role model for al qaeda, very strong in central asia. >> they want u.s. troops out of pakistan, out of the region, and muslim -- >> exactly. there goes pretty much al qaeda's goals. kalifaid, a hard line sunni organization. they don't believe in women being educated. it's about as extreme as you can get. . musharef tried to ban them. but in pakistan they haven't done any real violence yet, so a court order overturned the ban because it said this is jut free speech. but still, they're a very nasty group. and the fact that he would be tied to them suggest that there is

moving bodies, his specl theory of relativity establishes the equivalence of mass and@energy. isiss e equals mc squared equati that later is falsely claimed to make him the father of the atomic bomb. >> e stands for energy, m stands for mass. the small c is a. >> speed of light. >> a term of science. the c itself is the speed of light and you square the speed of light and then matter and matter becomes interchangeable >> energy. >> with energy. >> yes. >> and this of course is at a very sic level the secret to the atomic bb. he, of course, rejected with i@ think complely correctly rejected the idea that he had hehad nothing to do with that p"ogram, but he did come up t with the equation and soaked in. >> that isn't quite tr, though,it? >> he could not see what the equation produced. >> he wrote a letter to roosevelt and said that uranium is susceptible to the atomic power in so many words. th could be done by others. that was suggested in a letter, correct? and that led@roosevelt to form a@committee. that committee would then assemble in the manhattan project. now as i read einstei

people in the intelligence agency, the isi are defensive it was a great embarrassment. we should have found him, as a security official was telling me. they acknowledged that much. at the same time, they were offended by the fact that the united states did not inform pakistan what they were doing. it was a showing of profound distrust. on the street, there is a variety of reactions. and among the politicians, a variety of actions. one of the most interesting to me was a willingness to criticize and question the power of pakistan's army which plays a huge role in national life. takes up a huge part of the national budget. and a huge part of the national image. and people are beginning to ask in a sharper way than they have at some other times about whether that's right. >> warner: now you went up to a town right at the edge of the tribal region. what did you find there and elsewhere about how their fight, the one that-- cares about, against terrorists and militants in their midst is going? >> they are learning the same lessons that the united states learned in iraq and af