the pets.com. this explosion in san francisco that has been largely great stuff. mean, uber and twitter and -- there has been a bit of a backlash now. there was something in "san francisco" magazine a couple of weeks ago saying hey, maybe we're getting -- where do you stand on? san francisco versus silicon valley. >> well, i used to live in silicon valley. i started my career here at netscape and i started my first do companies including friendster at mountain view. and then i moved up to san francisco and i started four businesses in san francisco and i really love living in the city. things have shifted. a lot more start-ups are in san francisco. a lot of the entrepreneurs really want to be up in the city. so that really has shifted. that's why we started founders den in soma, not mountain view or palo alto. the backlash against the generality riff kaigs stuff, we went through that ten years ago. >> i read that story. david talbot. it's an irritating story. for all kinds of reasons. including the fact that it's almost kind of like some kind of odd anti-capitalis