a lawyer and poet, she has long been a fearless advocate for the poor and marginalized in america. so fearless she recently took on two other combative catholics, bill o'reilly and his alter ego, stephen colbert. robert royal is founder and president of the faith and reason institute, also in washington, dedicated, in his words, to "the twin strands out of which america and any good and free social fabric are woven." he is also editor in chief of this online publication, "the catholic thing," and the author of many books, including "the god that did not fail: how religion built and sustains the west." but first, buckle your seat belts. we're going to take a road trip across america's heartland with "nuns on the bus." and as you watch, remember, this cross-country journey took place two months before paul ryan became mitt romney's choice for vice president. >> faith is like walking through a mist with your eyes wide open. reminds me of when i was a kid in long beach and we'd stand out at the bus stop in the fog, and we'd try to tell by the headlights, was it a bus or was it a truck?

medicaid or other support systems for the absolutely poor. but the prior question that has to be answered, when we think about social justice, is, "is there going to be excess wealth to be distributed? is thereing a going to be a functioning system? it seems to me to be missing in much of what's talked about in certain catholic circles, when you talk about social justice or the preferential option for the poor. >> given that, would you have been theologically comfortable on the bus? >> probably not. probably not. because my own work is, of course, different than what the nuns do. my own work is to think about larger questions about how religion and politics intersect. and i found that this is a country whose tradition -- and we have to respect the country that we're in. if you lived in france or some other countries, they're quite used to centralized systems. we're not in the united states. alexis de tocqueville, the frenchman who wrote the famous book "democracy in america" came to the united states -- >> 1830s. >> right. and he was flabberga

it's that the poor are so over indebted. and what the microfinance sector doesn't like to discuss openly is the amount of microfinance which is just simply used to pay off the loan at the another microfinance institution. if you look at the 2008 collapse of nicaragua, in one year the amount of microfinance frel $4 20 million to 10*7d million. my favorite case there was a one woman who did the automation, there was one woman who manufactured kites. she had managed to obtain a loan from all 19 institutions simultaneously. there are only 19 banks in the country. and she had loans from all of them. there was one individual who had managed to rack up total microfinance loans of $600,000. so it's slightly ridiculous. what was happening was people were taking a loan from bank a to pay bank b and c to pay b. and they recycled the loans. for as long as the music keeps playing as we saw with bernie madoff, the music can play a long time. when the music stops, had the entire thing collapse. we had chriss in boss knee yew, -- this is the

both for the poor and the near poor. and as you know, it's happening at the federal level, it's happening because so many states are deep in fiscal trouble and having to cut sometimes more eagerly than others but having to cut. and we're seeing paul ryan and his friends and colleagues in the house proposing the budget that is truly astonishing and absolutely horrible. both in terms of what it does to people at lower end and also the fact that it contains an incredible amount of further tax cutting at the top robin hood would be turning over in his grave, i think. [laughter] but the purpose of my book is to put things in a larger context. to talk a little bit, when you have a chance to read the book about why we are where we are on poverty and to look ahead a little bit about what we need to do. of course, the harder question for all of us is how we can create a politics where these issues and many others take a different turn, a better turn in our country. ronald reagan said that we fought a war on poverty and poverty won

he joined others in speaking out against drastic gop cuts against the poor. d ezra klein, a washington post columnist and msnbc policy analyst. thank you both for being here tonight. >> thank you. >> ezra, let me start with you. there's so much talk about the ryan plan. tell us exactly what it is. i mean, specifically what it does to medicare. let's start there. >> begin with medicare. so it changes medicare to something called premium support. right now you get it and it pays your health care costs. that's what it does. what happens in ryan ice plan is you get a coupon. and the coupon will get you essentially the lowest or second lowest price medicare like options. private options and whatever is cheapest and it could be cheapest because it's able to select for healthier people, there are concerns about how you handle that kind of risk problem. but whatever is cheapest, you can get that. and if you want something different, say traditional medicare is not cheapest, you have to pay the difference. i think it's important to say quick here that he has shifted a

earn their loyalty of the poor. in addition you legitimated organized labor in ways that have not been previously seen. up on signs the national investor recovery act, he said its goal is the insurance of a reasonable profit to industry and living wages for labor with the elimination of methods and practices which have not only harassed on his business but have contributed to the ills of labor. now to the importance of capital and labor is the subject of his discipline. he made a distinction between on his business and tyrannical business. we all know that roosevelt did not hesitate at all to criticize business and business been challenging and through analogy, his name is story, and welcome to hatred in the 1936 election. the flipside was the organist lead was able to see it as their champion and did so even when his policies were substantially more pro-business than was his record. this is important because roosevelt became an advocate for labor. he argued as an organized labor was good and worthy and important to

number of never before seen in this country are the social safety nets that were put in place to help the poor enough to keep up with such a high demand and forget weak gun laws one of the biggest reasons gun violence is so prevalent in america is because corporations are allowed to write our laws how can we stop the corporate takeover of the legislative process and stop the epidemic of gun violence in the process. right so here's something that people living in florida should know your governor rick scott the national rifle association and the koch brothers funded american legislative exchange council are all working together to make your streets more dangerous restrict your first amendment rights and waste a ton of your taxpayer money and here's how they're doing it last year governor scott signed into law the firearm owners privacy act which bans doctors from asking their patients about gun ownership. that law was written by the n.r.a. and has since been introduced as model legislation by the american legislative exchange council it's also a law that was struck down by a federal judge back

so it's not like the obama campaign is poor. and there's a certain saturation point. so many dollars, so little air time here in the washington, d.c. media market, which serves northern virginia, important region in one of the most important swing states. you just can't breathe, you don't get any respite from the political ads. and there are probably more anti-obama ads than pro obama ads, but there are plenty of pro obama ads and in fact i think there's a saturation point. the second factor i think is that mitt romney, you know, the candidacy has yet to catch fire, and the poll numbers really aren't moving, as you said. >> i think that's a very good point, and so i try to think about it this way. that obama is going to have more money than any presidential candidate in history and mitt romney is going to have a whole lot more money than that. yet, when you think about the election, you're dealing primarily if you talk to the campaigns, eight, maybe ten states and a certain number of undecided swing voters within them. people who know the president well are not engaged

it's people simphr things out from the top to the bottom, the rich to the poor. ne that was there before. you buy a new couch, you have to put the old one in the alley. if you eat at mcdonald's, you have to throw out your trash afterward. you get the point. now, let's turn back to that original trash to gdp chart. as you can see, the garbage indicator appears to have fallen drastically. this could be a sign the u.s. economy is headed for a rough patch or it could mean that trash is becoming detached from the economy or it could show that the correlation is just a load of garbage. see how we did that? >>> governor mitt romney has a cash advantage over president obama. how much will it matter? eugene robinson joins me next. [ female announcer ] the power of green coffee extract is now in our new starbucks refreshers™ -- a breakthrough in natural energy. made with real fruit, starbucks refreshers™ are delicious low calorie drinks you can feel good about. ♪ rethink how you re-energize. ♪ get a boost of natural energy with a new starbucks refreshers™, in three ways. na

the democrats will get a vote of the non-white poor. what is the point of bringing it up? it is a moral issue, because there are so many children who do not know their fathers. now there are so many people in this country in prison. this country has more prisoners than the entire rest of the world. we have 2 million prisoners. now that is more than all the prisoners in the rest of the world. if we haves rowrong that many prisoners. another issue is the way people are treated in prison. it is a horrible issue in the united states, and i would like some effort made. a civilized society is based on how it treats its prisoners. i would like to see an issue made of that. i do not think it is going to happen. everyone is buying for the middle class and their votes and the upper middle-class and their money, but i think it is a moral issue that we are going to have retirement crisis in which we are going to have millions of americans who are not going to be able to afford life. >> it is a moral disgrace. >> we see problems with class and race. >> america is a country that is divi

he hung out with the poor. ired hippy who was all about the less fortunate and disdained wealth and those who lived in comfort. which will bring us to paul ryan eventually. i do want to talk about paul ryan with you. you mentioned dorothy day who is a great hero and someone who i think is in danger of being forgotten by folks. but you know, it is the sex thing really. it is the sex thing i think that's hurting the catholic church the most on three levels. number one, the gay thing which is not supported by scripture. jesus never said a damn thing about gaye people. he talked about monster trucks as much as he talked about the gays. the hypocrisy business on celibacy. none of that comes from the bible. our first pope, st. peter was married. all of the priests and popes and bishops for over 1,000 years were married. it wasn't until 1139 a. d. that celibacy was made the law of the church not because sex is bad or because jesus was a bachelor but because the church didn't want priests and popes leaving land and weal

we're now the poor class. ack up to that level so we can start hemg out to get this country back on track. one of the things you have to do is invest in the people. the people are like people like me. the people who are doing what is right. who are doing what we need to in order to get back on track. we thought about what we needed to do for education. we thought about the best careers. unfortunately there are a lot of people in the system that i have met now that don't have the ability to make a life plan, as elaborate as the one i created for myself and i try to help them but it would be a lot better if the government would try to help these people create a real life plan. help them go the schools that aren't going to rip them off. help them figure out what they have to do for long term slugs. they need help with food in the meantime while they are trying to get themselves on track. all these things are things that are being addressed and it's so important for the middle class to come about again. >> tanya we

>> it will significantly impact more heavily the groups like minority, the poor, elderly, student. >> jon: yes! finally the free ride for this country's minority poor, elderly, and student is over. ( laughter ) no more living on easy street for people who are already living on skid row. the only thing more blatant would be if you had some republican state rep in pennsylvania touting how voter i.d. laws would be handing the election to republicans. >> voter i.d., which is going to allow governor romney to win the state of pennsylvania, done. >> jon: no one is videotaping this, right? ( laughter ) because i'm going to look like an ass ( bleep ). we go to jessica williams in pennsylvania. jessica, nice to see you ( cheers and applause ). >> jon: let me ask you a question. let me ask you a question. it seems pretty clear these new regulations focus disproportionately on minorities and the poor. >> yes, jon, that's right. definitely. >> jon: what if through a concerted effort those groups are able to obtain these photo i.d.s necessary? >> not to worry, jon. there are some new regulations i

what would passage of that budget mean for the poor that you and the other nuns serve?y the ryan budget that's been passed by the house would decimate the entire safety net, it would really under cut employers who pay low wages, who employees rely on the safety net for food shelter and clothing. so that it would devastate not only the poor at the margins of our society, but also employers that pay low wages. it would also decimate the heart of our nation because it really pulls us back from being a communal people who cares for those in our society. i mean, really i've been saying we have to reclaim the constitution about being we the people. we're all in this together. it's not about individualistic or individualism. that's wrong. that's a lie. i think it's unpatriotic to pepper pet wait it. but it is about being we the people. >> jennifer: it's ironic--it's interesting you've put out a faithful budget, the nuns and a number of the member of the faith community crafted a budget which you can find online. i also understand that you put on an invitation to mitt romney to

the cuts to the promise to the poor are much more onerous. 62% of the programs are designed for the poore talking about head start food stamps, pell grants for poor students to attend universities. we're talking about everything that the federal government has tried to do to help people who for no fault of their own in most cases are poor or lower income in this country. >> eliot: it's george w. bush on steroids. the reasons for that is not only the tax policies that you laid out, but the spending time, they've capped 3.75% of gdp medicare medicaid, and defense associatesocial security. >> every time i hear that paul ryan, one thing that is on his side that i hear over and over again from pundits is that he's serious about entitlement reform. that's baloney. he's a destroyer of entitlements. he wants to take medicaid and give it out to the states with almost no federal support at all. the federal support goes from one-half to one-third to one quarter of what it is right now. he wants to give medicare vouchers whose costs don't keep up with the cost of healthcare. that means the cost of h

so your organization believes the federal budget cuts are going to hurt the poor. he economy collapses, sister, under 16 trillion-dollar debt load, the poor and everybody else are going to be disseminated have you into account. >> yes, we have recreated with our interfaith partners faithful budget what the faithful budget calls for is reasonable revenue to pay for responsible programs that we saw. one of the things that many people don't realize is that catholic sisters run many programs in our country for low income folks. we take some of the central money, we leverage it with donations and private contributions and create really amazing responsible programs that we saw. >> bill: i don't think anybody is arguing that catholic charities u your organization do amazing work among the poor. let's stick with the government here for a minute. >> sure. >> because have you called on governor romney to come down. that implies that you believe he doesn't know or doesn't care about the plight of the poor people. that's the implication of it. >> well, i think he may care. but

caller: paul ryan an mitt romney -- [unintelligible] who will help the poor and the needy? i am a democrat and i do not know where obama came from. [unintelligible] host: we will show more of that year later in our schedule. next up, robert. caller: were other referees in the campaign and media? campaignomeone did a commercial accusing romney of someone getting cancer and dying? where are the referees? they have the whistles in their pockets. host: you talk about referees. what should the media do in a case like that? caller: they should call them out. i did not hear a peep about a grandmother being pushed off a cliff. everyone knows paul ryan does not want to push a grandmother over a cliff or romney murdering someone. where is the media? host: we have had folks from politofact. you may start there in the claims in truth on advertising. caller on the independent line. hello. caller: i am thrilled with paul ryan, mitt romney's pick. i have voted democratic, but i am independent. i will be voting for mitt romney. as for the president today, they talk about paul ryan does not

the poor themselves. the social safety net will be destroyed if we destroy the free enterprise system as we are on a path ultimately to do. so let's summarize. the free enterprise system allows us to earn our success. it is the fairest system decide how americans to find fairness which is merit based in a system best of the gene at the least among us. that is the reason for enterprises not an economic alternative. it is a moral imperative. now, the structure of the winning argument for free enterprises face. you get 30 seconds. at the talking for 30 minutes. you get 30 seconds to convince her sister-in-law at the thanksgiving table. that's the battle of november is every american defining the system in defending the system we love. you get 30 seconds to make your case. you have to start by establishing your moral bona fides. do it in terms of earned success, true fairness. only then can we talk about data and policy. that's a real hard from to do. i am burdened under the weight of a phd. it's hard for me n

but when it fits the poor cinderella, uh-oh. about the very poor. >> then there's the goose that laid the golden eggs. the goose doesn't die in this version. he's living it up. this one percenter is getting tax breaks on those eggs. maybe we'll see him at the hamptons fund raiser. let's move on to rip van wink l. he wakes from a slumber to find he qualifies for social security but not so fast, rip, someone in the kingdom has a problem with it. >> i'll gradually raise the retirement age for social security and reduce the age of benefit growth. >> and finally snow white. this tale is about another and other republicans you see. snow white's poison apple tragedy could have been

taxes go up it's a vision that doesn't provide guaranteed health insurance for the old the sick in the poor that ends medicare as we know it and slashes medicaid funding by third over the next ten years it's a vision that dismantle social safety nets condemning the fifty million americans who are in poverty right now to to kenzie in desperation it's a vision that eliminates federal student loan aid for one million young americans at the same time it's a vision of a nation with an increasing military budget and war machine a vision that preserves tens of billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies for transnational oil corporations that are more profitable than ever before dumping more pollution in the skies than ever before and it's a vision that will ultimately cost our economy four million jobs over the next two years if an active. say what you want about the corporate takeover of both parties republicans and democrats it's all true say what you want about the democratic party leaving progresses behind to curry favor from wall street but budgeting is not a bloodless game it's not just numbe

>> i'm not concerned about the very poor. we have a safety net there. if it needs repair, i'll fix it. >> folks, i'd be laughing if it wasn't so scary. maybe the joke is really on us. joining me now is michelle cato, washington reporter for the daily beast and "news week." and david corn for mother jones, an msnbc political analyst and also the author of "showdown." first of all, thanks both of you for your time tonight. >> sure thing. >> it's our pleasure. >> david, let me start with you. we're having some fun there with rafalca, but the point here is very serious. mitt romney for this time in history, i mean, what are we looking at here? >> well, first i have to say those were the most six gripping minutes of olympic sport i've ever seen today. watching rafalca come around the third turn. though the cantering isn't as articulated as it should be. we learned about the sport and the need for undercar garages and how to have tax savings offshore. not for tax benefit, just for the heck of it. but i think your summation this evening, reverend, sort of puts

but when it fits the poor cinderella, uh-oh. ncerned about the very poor. >> then there's the goose that laid the golden eggs. the goose doesn't die in this version. he's living it up. this one percenter is getting tax breaks on those eggs. maybe we'll see him at the hamptons fund raiser. let's move on to rip van wink l. he wakes from a slumber to find he qualifies for social security but not so fast, rip, someone in the kingdom has a problem with it. >> i'll gradually raise the retirement age for social security and reduce the age of benefit growth. >> and finally snow white. this tale is about another and other republicans you see. snow white's poison apple tragedy could have been avoided. if house republicans didn't propose cuts to fda funding. i think there's a lesson to be learned from these romney tales. don't read them before you go to bed. and if the wrong people get in to office, my fairy tales may end up your reality show. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. >>> romney versus romney. let's

the rich will be richer and the poor would be richer. in another -- not just the long term but the median term. those are the aspects of economic freedom that i claimed drive innovation and growth. how do i know that? for starters, here is a graph of economic freedom. the fraser institute in canada rates countries on economic freedom. what do they mean by economic freedom? this was not a random list. this was a list of criteria the institute uses. this is the measure of economic freedom. this is per-capita income in various countries. there is a general upward trend. as economic freedom goes up, so does per-capita income. that chart proves causation and correlation are two different things. that is still only the beginning of an end -- of an investigation. you have to look at the data more carefully, controlling for variables to review and discovering economic freedom is really important. the ideal way to determine something like that is with a controlled experiment. that is always the gold standard in science. we have exactly to controll

i don't believe that the preferential option for the poor means a preferential option for big governmentthe áoneá group that could make or break...the republican vice presidential candidate. candidate. ((break 1)) when it comes to getting my family to eat breakfast, i need all the help i can get. that's why i like nutella. mom, what's the capital of west virginia? charleston. nutella is a delicious hazelnut spread my whole family loves. mom, have you seen my -- backpack? nutella goes great on whole-wheat toast or whole-grain waffles. and its great taste comes from a unique combination of simple ingredients like hazelnuts, skim milk and a hint of cocoa. yeah, bye. have you seen my -- yes. and...thank you. [ male announcer ] nutella. breakfast never tasted this good. [ male announcer ] nutella. for the fourth straight year, the 19-94 honda accord earns the honor of being the most ptolen car in america. that's according to the national insurance crime bureau's annual list. older cars dominate the 2011 report. in fact, no car made since 2006 made the list. two other honda models, the 19-98 c

some catholics, including bishops, argued that would hurt the poor. ryan's response -- >> as a catholic in public life, my own personal thinking on these issues has been guided by my understanding of the church's social teaching. simply put, i do not believe that the preferential option for the poor means a preferential option for big government. >> joining me with moron this is kevin eckstrom, editor-in-chief of "religion news service." kevin, a lot of catholics disagreed with how paul ryan applied his catholic faith to his budget plan. >> right, and what's interesting is paul ryan has been on the catholic radar screen for a long time and you know when the nuns on the bus went out this summer to advocate for social justice, it wasn't a mistake that they actually stopped at his congressional office in wisconsin. it's interesting, because the church for the last couple of years has really put a priority on the life issues, abortion and gay marriage, and they've said that joe biden and barack obama are completely wrong on this issue but in recent months,