. >> it happens in the world we live in at ula. >> the question that was mentioned, monopoly. but nobody likes monopoly but in the best case we would have adieu only or adieu og only, we need other millionaire to back miss van gleek or where is branson with others with eggees and when you say the business case isn't exciting about this, the diminishing number of pay loads, the substantial risk it takes an investors ego to propel the sort of speculative investment, the glory of space faring. but so i think as we fear monopoly we should fair in mind the best case is we're going to have an olig only and that is not an whole lot better. we love retail where we can get amazon pricing for everything but that is not likely to get to happen here despite mr. bezos. and finally there is the touchy issue of recruiting brilliant personnel. and we in america relied heavily on warner van bron and other folks imported from germany and the last one just died down in huntsville, alabama and there are brilliant scientists who make a difference. i couldn't help but note on the first page of mr.

the rd-180? >> according to our customer at ula we understand it is. ble or better than the rd-180. >> ms. van cleat? >> yes, sir. we've designed the ar-1 to be at or below the price point of the rd-180. >> okay. i want to stay with you ms. van cleat, for a minute. mr. bruno in his opening statement made reference to the fact you are 16 months behind blue origin and your development of your engine. can you address that observation? and what does he mean by that? >> well i don't have my competitor's schedule. i can't say for certain where the 16 months comes from. what i can say is we will be certified by 2019. we're very confident about that. we've spent 20 years developing this technology from the russians that was pioneered by the russians. we have the factories, we have a schedule. we will be testing full scale engines in the beginning of 2017. we will provide a full engine set to ula in 2018 and we will complete certification in 2019. >> 2018 or 2019? >> we'll complete certification of the engine in 2019. >> mr. meyerson, when do you think you will

>> so either engine pass that has been discussed requires significant investment on the part of ula. without the continued rev institution generation of the atlas atlas, until that new american engine is available we will lack the funds to be able to accomplish that activity. without that we are entering into a market tree where the air force market has declined and is incapable of supporting two providers. now, the good news is the overall market is large enough to support both of us both us and the traditional suppliers. but in order to be a viable economic in that entity in that environment, we need to be able to effectively compete for civil and commercial missions in addition to competing for national security space missions. without that lower cost rocket and without the investment required to get there, we're simply not economically viable in that window. >> you skated that with the commercial launches in addition to the military launches there would be economic viability for multiple providers and even we might get a third provider with orbital tk participating. that being the

the -- we've been working closely with ula for several years now on replacing an rd-180 in various forms. like i said, we have looked at this problem over the last ten years. we have an active contract right now identifying the specific changes that need to be made, assuming this goes into an at atlas five vehicle. for the record in terms of the estimate for those costs, i've heard a variety of numbers. i've never heard a $200 million number. the number i've heard are in the low tens of millions of dollars. i think that cost estimates still needs to be refined but the type of modifications that are required are very minor. >> for the ar-1? >> for the ar-1. yes. >> now, mr. meyerson. >> can i add to mr. culbertson's comments. his response, the key word was it, ten years of investment by the russian government to develop a replacement for the nk-33 which was developed into the av-26 that's the key point ten years and we don't know how much money was invested. the b-4 is being developed. it's fully funded. we're more than three years into the development. so this is real. it's not a paper e