the soviet union as distinct from russia. and once there was no no more any will from moscow to hold the thing together by means of the communist party then the other nationalities starting with the baltic and carrying on with georgia and armenia and so on they started to go their own way and at that point the communist party of the soviet union really lost much of its or isn't it now gorbachev perhaps could lead to say in the early months of one thousand nine hundred one have split the communist party and lead a kind of social democratic wing of it himself and that might have been successful but significantly he didn't do that so i think really the evidence suggests that the communist party of the soviet union was really unreformable ok vlad you want to jump in on this one yeah i would i would i definitely agree there is this going collusion and i would press that the united russia party is in a sense a revival revived communist party because you know it's the party of the officials of the of the state you know some wondering

history at university college london and his latest book is rulers and victims the russians in the soviet union and also in london we have lad sobel he's an analyst at gallup securities and another member of our crosstalk team on the hunger all right gentlemen this is cross talk that means you can jump in anytime you want stephen i want to go to you first here as got a bunch off is eighty years old today and let's talk about global legacy and then let's go to specific to russia what is his contribution to history at eighty years old remembering his rule ending the soviet union well one contribution is already recorded in history he set free the countries of eastern and central europe that's done where they go from here is up to them what's not settled or written history is the fate of democracy in russia there are different opinions about the condition of democracy in russia whether and he has very strong opinion was and for good reason he wants to go down in history as the father of russian democracy in the west we attribute it to yeltsin but that's not true now if. democracy flourishes in rus

on the soviet union's first on loss president celebrates his eightieth birthday. also consider the man who put pressure on the policy towards democracy president dead of his wish to be back in the water had the highest award in russia. gas discuss how the legacy of the father of russian democracy is seen both in russia and the sun. take it. slow and welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle as he turns eighty mailed out of a child's legacy sees him loved abroad in loath to home as glasnost and perestroika become distant memories of we ask how will history judge the man who seemingly ended history. can. you discuss the legacy of the last soviet leader i'm joined by stephen cohen here in the studio he's a professor of russian studies and history at new york university and his latest book is the victims return survivors of the gulag after stalin in london we go to geoffrey hosking he's an emeritus professor of russian history at university college london and his latest book is rulers in victims the russians in the soviet union and also in london we have lagged sobel he'

and specifically the democratic unions he singled out the firefighters union the police officers unions saying that was about public safety but he kept the e.m.t. as part of his assault so he has i mean it's not his arguments and he was picking those unions that originally george exactly and then the state chapter of the troopers union said that they regretted endorsing him and you've seen firefighters have been there the firefighters of the night in the capital i think it was last weekend they've been out there in force and police officers off duty officers are trying to get lost in a conversation that is clearly there's a very good people out there who are trying to do their jobs they want that recognition on both sides but i think what's what's lost is that let's say we're looking at the firefighter the policeman what about that excellent school teacher why is it that she should or he should be subject to the to the salaries that are negotiated on her his behalf by the teachers union the school board why shouldn't i go there at a concert you know i was. not for the union i mean they

you did meet with the union, right? >> yes. this group has been municipal executive association with members of local 21. commissioner: any progress? >> we exchanged ideas, but in the process of the way the budget works, this is a preliminary phase, and those discussions get more intense as you move to the other phases of the discussion. >> so the last time we met, we talked about our role. my primary concern with local 21 was the was not certain we were engaging in conduct which i thought we may have been required to engage in. i had a chance to meet with the mayor. i had a chance to meet with local 21. this is the first by it had heard there was an seiu member involved. i have been persuaded that while we move down this road in good faith, i do not think anyone wants to take this with confidence, but i am pretty confident that for me, personally, we can move along in this direction and have every opportunity, as does the union, to exchange ideas in an effort to reach an agreement, so i am prepared to move the item four, especi

to reform me the only way was actually what is a and concrete call ups and disintegration of the soviet union and i would actually argue that the economic factors was really very much behind the disintegration of the soviet union because you couldn't carry on market county to implement market reforms on the basis of central control in from moscow you really had to devolve power to the group the various three probably this is the seed of this integration and we're seeing similar such processes in central europe as well in czechoslovakia in yugoslavia so you know i don't i don't believe that the idea that the economy could be risky would in some fall i think is delusional if i can add on top of it he would use a good economic reform here frankly stephen here and then having political freeform simultaneously they create high expectations when the shelves are empty i mean it is certain point there is a collision and there was a collision there was a commotion and i would i would do what you say because the point is correct that the economic crisis that came in one thousand nine hundred ninety one

they belong to a union but what. what's the purpose of being in a union. >> we didn't have unions for public employees in arkansas we'd an association. they were an effective lobbying force. >> charlie: you just said it's okay if a public employee belongs to a union, that's all right. >> i don't remember it being an issue. i don't think they can come and put the government in a hostage situation. you can't hold the services of government for ransom. i do think that these what's wrong. if you have teachers who are cd to teach and they walk away from their classroom in essence going on strike and they go down to the state capitol screaming i do have a problem with that because you say what's wrong with the -- >> charlie: people are making comparison with what the governor of wisconsin is doing compared to president reagan when he was running for governor in california and later what he did with the air controls. do you think that's what's goig on here that this is a developing potent issue in the more than political discourse. >>

from public sector unions through the collective bargaining situation with public sector unions the issue here is that they have an unfair advantage basically the deck is stacked against state governments due to their fiscal irresponsibility over time and the taxpayers held hostage if this were sort of the story of the fox in the henhouse here public sector unions own the you know control the fox the hen house and the mortgage on on the hen house the problem here is there's nobody to protect the hen which in this case is the american taxpayer with that said democratic politicians traditionally have been willing accomplices because public sector unions in particular seem to be the largest source of their campaign funds and campaign operations and they've basically become like harry want to addicks addicted to public sector union farms because they want to get reelected so instead of doing what's been fiscally rational over time they're doing what's policing politically expedient in terms of preserving their position in off

the city. it is very common for safety unions to have that. very uncommon for that to be the case with miscellaneous employees. we have seen in past years that interest arbitration is a way to bring back in recalcitrant unions. so we have actually had the ability to bring those employes into the same pattern set by the labor council. in a last round, we had interest arbitration by station engineers and the electricity -- the electricians, and the arbitrator awarded 3.7% -- of awarded3.75% wage reduction -- with the furlough day, he worked one day last pay period we consider that to be a good arbitration award for the city. likewise, the local six arbitration award, the arbitrator matched the pattern and awarded 12 furlough days. the police officers association and firefighters each gave an average -- gave up 8% over two years, an average of 4% per year. in the case of the firefighters, their wage deferrals and savings was conditional. if the city were to close firehouses or stop operating emergency apparatus or if it increased the average workw

the one nine hundred seventy s. when when we had a lot more unions down the average c.e.o.earned about thirty times as much as the average worker today is about three hundred times i mean that's where his own speaks most of the economy is gone is not going to the right people as i go into the great american middle class is are you in the working group when you do the godfather of all i can all the. anger that is usually no need to be rude but i have seen those facts as well that now let's talk about break one hundred years ago and let's look at the labor movement today that we've all said that union membership has dropped significantly but american girls are going to be seeing a huge war on unions to the public security which shouldn't exist anymore it's constant in wisconsin but you can't say that there is. this intimidation campaign from the story that i did earlier in the show we found out that from indiana they were suggesting to scott walker the bacon assassination attempt we know that's not why we're is now going after a professor who works in wisconsin and trying to

the union was a pet project of french president nicolas sarkozy. w he says it is time to revisit the alliance. >> looking at current events as they enfold, we must seize the moment and a revitalize the union. >> proposals for european aid from on arising -- modernizing the region's infrastructure, including sewage treatment was to protect the mediterranean. that would serve vital european interests, especially planan for solar power energy production projects. so it is broad consensus with billions of euros over an extended time span. >> there is no question to where eu aid should be directed. for the people who need our support and for the creation of a democratic and open society. we must also support the development of a judicial system and help stop corruption. >> we must also open our markets, although that may affect the eu's southern regions, spain, italy, and greece. we must institute in africa at the same quality certification process that is already in place within the eu. that will cost money. and that is the best economic aid we can prov

it did, through its negotiations with the unions and other circumstances. the city was paying into the pension the employee portion, the employee pickup. it is a cost, but not the employer cost. the city would have still made those payments to the employees in terms of salary dollars rather than fringe benefits through raises. i want to make sure we keep everything in balance when we look at these costs. some of the other costs included in here -- we see this every time you read an article on costs. the pension and the costs go up. but one sentence after the talk about the pension, you see health care costs and retiree health. they are separate legal entities independent of each other, unrelated to the pension cost itself. you have some portion of pension expense. it does not go into the san francisco system. it is paid into the state system to cover the sheriff's department, district attorney, and other small groups covered underyou also have cost the cits to pay into social security. these are all cost you have to pay for and i realize you're dealing with

the safety out there at union square. before approving it, we had spoken with the mta and with the bicycle coalition to help us in evaluating the potential safety of such a use out there. through those conversations, the department was able to reach a level of comfort that this would

the public unions. yeah i don't know why they're so upset with the koch brothers considering that they're probably making a lot of money in their retirements but i think the main thing here is that scott walker's behave like a petulant child he doesn't want to talk to the state senators he doesn't like that they're not going his way he got the concessions from the unions that he wanted and the first let's go back even further to how this all started the but the budget was balanced when doyle left he passed massive tax cuts which then made the budget crisis so he had so he could do the budget repair bill which he tried to shove here in three days without much testimony or much hearing going through committee and when the state senator said you know look we've got to slow this down we want to go through this like hold on hold on here he lack they left the state because there is no other option because of those who are going their way look if everything is to compromise in perpetuity then it's never up for

are the heavily unionized in much worse condition? guest: it is the opposite. right to work is a misnomer. it means that there are a lot of states in this nation that had very few unions or union contracts in the private sector or in the public sector. take the three states that prohibit bargaining, arizona is one of them. texas, i think, is another of them. the states that actually have prohibition on collective bargaining have worked deficits than the states that have public-sector collective bargaining contracts. you say the same thing in education. the three states tops in education, md., minn., massachusetts. they have basically all of their school districts with teacher union contract. teacher unions 42 union contracts, they only cover about 53% of the teachers in the united states of america. this method that it union contracts have caused these deficits, it is just wrong. union contracts focus on trying to create unions and create respect and dignity. we try to lift all votes. -- all boats. . at the end of the day, we have to find ways to help those who

we're going to be finding out tomorrow night if the union deal or city deal with the police union goes through. if it does, local one says they expect the same kind of agreement. live in antioch, terry mcsweeney "abc 7 news." >>> it appears there is finally a deal in place that will end the bitter 18-month labor dispute between hilton hotel. they scheduled a news conference where they are expected to announce a tentative agreement on a new contract. no details have been released. union members have been working without a contract since august of 2009. major issue is wages as well as healthcare costs. >> more painful cuts can be coming to the school district in the east bay. the board shut down to shut down a middle school and holbrook elementary at the end of the school year. they will vote on whether to lay off up to 180 full time employees including 33 music teachers and 20 librarians. they would eliminate music and library programs throughout the district. >> we have learned that the san francisco defender's camera which they say should policeman misconduct. making drug busts, they

the safety out there at union square. before approving it, we had spoken with the mta and with the bicycle coalition to help us in evaluating the potential safety of such a use out there. through those conversations, the department was able to reach a level of comfort that this would not create any additional unwarranted risk. when the item went to our commission, our commission decided to allow for nine months where we could collect data on the safety of the operation at union square. that was a time that roughly coincided with the peak season where we felt that would be large enough that we could get an adequate sample size to determine what the true safety factors are, and then after that nine months, and actually, any point after that nine months, so if two and a half years in, the department decides is unsafe, we can seize the operation at union square. the department and the commission did feel strongly, though, that it was necessary to have an adequate amount of time to develop -- to generate some empirical data on

looking at the culture across the country -- osiris is pro union. we support the unions.just do not support what happens behind the doors. it is time for the unions to come forth and start implementing. i am not saying all unions are the same across the board, but the ones we have identified. we have everything in place. i am calling out to the cbo's to understand we have to collectively work together. the city officials, the mayor's office -- they have been doing work to make sure this works. we need to work collectively to make this work. it is like a chain in a bicycle. you get one snag and it can stop the process. now the ball is in the community's court, let us get this thing going. >> my name is washington -- is ace washington. i am here to congratulate those of you who put this legislation together. i have been monitoring since this started last year. i am here to tell all the new people here that all these new programs -- i am sure espinola is the only one who has been here longer than i have. i have been here 20 years, when we used to go to jail for these good fa

the firefighters union voted to accept the 10% reduction mining four unions have now agreed. san jose police have not agreed to concessions. they are among seven unions still negotiating. if all 11 agree, the city says it will mean a $38 million savings. >>> if the others don't come in with these the council will have to decide whether or not to impose terms of employment for the next year. but with the police union we don't have the right to impose. they have the right to go to arbitration. >> reporter: engineer salvador says she will accept the cuts. >> we are trying to, you know, take one for the team. >> reporter: a source of the city manager's office told me tonight that even if all 11 unions agree to the 10% cuts there will still be some layoffs. live in san jose lloyd lacuesta, ktvu, channel 2. >> supporters of gay rights are pleased by the 9th circuit

and the soviet union is first and last president celebrates his eightieth birthday. consider the man who put russia on the path towards democracy. and well throughout his time in power gorbachev played a pivotal role in bringing about the end of the cold war the reunification of germany liberalism and destroy the and the soviet union archy caught up with them and that interview's up next. because mr gorbachev it's so great to have you with us today good to see you again but this regard richard if you're turning eighty do you ever think the world will look like this on your eightieth birthday. it's not easy to surprise people like me those who lived to see their eightieth birthday have seen a lot in life eighty is a lot we should thank god for giving us so many years and because it eighty you already know a lot you've experienced many things i can view life in a primitive way today laughter safer today compared to the late eighties with us this war if we look at the middle east for example in most countries where people took to the streets demanding resignation of thei

the t.s.a. as pat downs and body scans are unionized t.s.a. if you really want your safety officers working part time a little bit. for flimsy low and keep all the preaching about these women nothing people are saying just speak she's called her you know she says she's a star.

so let's look at the situation in one of the lowest union participation rates states in the whole united states and that's idaho less than five percent of the citizens of idaho are in a union food stamps surge in west the number of idahoans taking food stamps grew by forty two percent last year we were less than five percent of them are in use so they can't blame their catastrophe on union members so the number increased from in two thousand and seven before the financial terrorist attack that glenn beck is trying to distract them from. before then five point eight percent of the population were on food stamps now fourteen percent are on food stamps this is more than the national average which is that thirteen percent so the national numbers of people relying on food stamps which is like a pitiful amounts of like one hundred dollars a month for individual it's up seventeen million nationally since the crisis began in idaho alone it's up one hundred thirty six thousand one hundred fifteen people now rely on food stamps this is a state which i

we would do you blame yourself for the fall of the soviet union. no i fought the best i could to defend the soviet union but i failed why do you think the c.i.s. fell apart it is practically nonexistent. that's because of the political situation we had in our country after nine hundred eighty nine the elite played a role there after nine hundred eighty nine we had the coup first they tried to overthrow gorbachev using political means but they failed because people supported gorbachev i always wanted to ask during the coups what you were isolated what did you feel. i knew anything could happen it was not just a feeling i knew it. they tried to provoke us and get us to start shooting and then they would document that and have the right to shoot back and kill us. and that's the way what were you afraid the most for your life your country. you. know for my family and of course i thought that it was not going to be just my family other people may suffer too i knew there would be bloodshed. especially if you consider how big our country is it takes our co

we're going to be finding out tomorrow night if the union deal or city deal with the police union goes through. if it does, local one says they expect the same kind of agreement. live in antioch, terry mcsweeney "abc 7 news." >>> it appears there is finally a deal in place that will end the bitter 18-month labor dispute between hilton hotel. they scheduled a news conference where they are expected to announce a tentative agreement on a new contract. no details have been released. union members have been working without a contract since august of 2009. major issue is wages as well as healthcare costs. >> more painful cuts can be coming to the school district in the east bay. the board shut down to shut down a middle school and holbrook elementary at the end of the school year. they will vote on whether to lay off up to 180 full time employees including 33 music teachers and 20 librarians. they would eliminate music and library programs throughout the district. >> we have learned that the san francisco defender's camera which they say should policeman misconduct. making drug busts, they

the t.s.a. pat downs and body scans plus a unionized t.s.a. if you really want your safety officers working part time it's a little bit. of flimsy lo and. behold the preaching about these men and nothing people are suggesting she's pulled her know she says she's a star.

to desert fie the unions, what did he do instead? ure a fiscal crisis in wisconsin it wasn't a fiscal crisis. >> the books were not balanced. >> well, they were this year. there was a 2 to $4 billion crisis looming on the here royson but the book -- horizon but the books were balanced for this year. manufacturing a fiscal crisis and the long term solution was the make it difficult for unions. >> i think long term that is the key the books are balanced now but we have been hearing all over -- >> one hand i have got you know unions they say they want their power and i reeve got corporations they want -- and i've got corporations they want theirs you get a tax break you get a pension enhancement i wind up paying both ways, right? >> again, hopefully in california the solution will get all those interested at the table together and negotiate a compromise. what is going on in wisconsin is breech of democracy. public employees are at fault for this certainly pension reform is happening in california, there are groups that are reasonable, re

today, the unions are just another big business. before this all turned into a fiasco, the national should have stepped in and went after this governor. these people are going to be forced right into obamacare because they're not one to have any insurance. that happens in new york. they kept losing their benefits. the unions sat back on it. thank you. host: thank you for your call. let me show you "the washington times" front-page story. "more than 1/3 of the nation's $9.3 trillion in pension assets belongs to state and local government employees." host: also on the front page of "the new york times" -- "wisconsin curbs public unions." we are asking -- who was the winner and loser in wisconsin? caller: people of this country have to understand there's not one job owned by the employee. it's always the employer. before this is over, the taxpayers are going to thank the governor for saving them tax money in the long run. the reason they cannot cut the players' the ball benches is because they're not government employees. they are priva