how do we communicate those issues to the public. >> so that's something we think about a lot at uspto. i mentioned are convention program. we have far convention coming on the third and fourth of november, and we do the hall of fame, so there after talking to schools and talking to educators. it really has a lot to do with consumer awareness i think. i think events like this are useful, and it's online and so we will be able to share that. i do think, and charles can speak to this, there are times where consumers rise up against the more broadly and heard. boldly that's what matters, the power of the consumer. >> i think that's exactly right. these issues affect consumers over the whether or not they realize it or not. it's just a matter of realizing all the contacts actually mean mean something and you might want to actually consider what the policy issues are behind that. people are starting to realize that. >> read the fine

we're not a law enforcement agency at the uspto, but we did several years ago start a conversation broadly on copyright and innovation in the digital economy, and we did a green paper in 2013 and a white paper in 2015. what does that mean? green paper is like here are the problems. white paper, potential solutions. i didn't know that before i joined the government. but we did it through the department of commerce. and we received so many comments. i know public knowledge participated in those as well. we had roundtables around the country. and one thing that we kept hearing over and over again is that there are these issues, but they're actually, the marketplace is working some of them out. and so, that was encouraging. and that's not surprising, right, because we've been talking all day here about what do consumers want, what do we as end users want? well, if you're going to have a bunch of consumers that are unhappy, then there's probably going to be somebody who's going to try to target that. so, not saying everything's solved or that there won't be future problems, but it is interestin