risks that rockets could be fired from the west bank into israel. risks of terrorism from the west bank. but foreign policy is always about the balance of risk. >> rose: we conclude this evening with tim weiner, his new book about the history of the fbi. >> what i really learned about hoover is that he was not a monster. he was an american machiavelli. and he is the man who created the national security system we have today, really. and the surveillance state we have today. every camera on every street corner, every fingerprint, every bit of biometric data that is on file is a monument to him. >> rose: ahmed rashid, peter beinart and tim weiner when we continue. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. ahmed rashid is here, a best selling author and journalist. for three decades he'ses reported on afghanistan, pakistan and the rise of the taliban, the late christopher hitchens called him pakistan's best and bravest reporter. his latest

phase was in the thirties when the british proposed their first division of what was then palestine, which included both banks of the jordan river, the east bank and the west bank of the jordan river, and to divide it into two- the east bank, which will be what we now call jordan, and the west bank, which would be palestine- would be some kind of joint jewish and arab state. this provoked again another big argument within the settlement then in the land of israel among those who said, "only the entirety of the land," and those who said, "well, better some of it rather than the entire bit." and then the six day war is just another phase in this ongoing argument. the same argument went on also in 1948, and the decision to the partition the land again into two states- a jewish state and a palestinian state. and in 1967, following the six day war, when israel occupied the west bank, the issue became an issue again. do we see the west bank as part of the state of israel, or not? this is of course speaking from the israeli point of view. so this has been an ongoing debate within zionism. now its unique religious flavor is really a matter of the past 25 years, wh

they applied the same strategy in the occupied west bank and golan heights. t victory and occupation did not bring peace. israel fought its arab neighbors again in 1973. they battled lebanese militias and the palestine liberation army, or plo, in the north. although israel returned the sinai in 1981, terror campaigns persisted through the '70s and '80s in the west bank and gaza. hoping to eventually trade land for peace, israel gambled on a 1993 plan negotiated in oslo. the main thing that oslo produced was mutual recognition between israel and the plo. for the plo, recognition of israel meant, all right, we are now accepting a two-state solution. for the israelis to accept the plo meant that they were accepting, in effect, the plo agenda. and they knew the plo agenda was statehood. if you accept the idea of having a palestinian state, and we insist on having a palestinian state-- you know, we need a capital-- and the only capital that could be, from a geographical point of view, for what would be a palestinian state in the west bank, would be jerusalem. man:

israel has occupied the west bank for 45 years. >> raheb: if you see what's happening in the west bank find that the west bank is becoming more and more like a piece of swiss cheese, where israel gets the cheese-- that is the land, the water resources, the archaeological sites-- and the palestinians are pushed in the holes behind the walls. >> simon: israel built the wall over the last ten years, which completely separates israel from the occupied west bank. the wall was built to stop palestinian terrorists from getting into israel. and it's worked-- terrorism has gone down 90%. at the same time, the wall completely surrounds bethlehem, turning the little town where christ was born into what its residents call an "open-air prison." do you remember the day they put up the wall? >> christie anastas: yeah. actually, it was in 2003 and i was about 14 years old. i went to school one day, and came back and found the wall surrounding the house. >> simon: christie anastas lives with her mother claire, her father, brother and sister in this house which is surrounded on three sides by the wall.

very different group of palestinians living in the gaza strip compared to the west bank which is a more secular minded group of palestinians. there's no one to negotiate with on the palestinian side because you have the division between hamas and the 5 top leadership. the years we spent in jerusalem, most foreign correspondents spend three years max covering the conflict because you get burned out and felt it would leave feeling there was no hope, don't want to hear about it anymore. there is quite a dearth of writing by correspondents who lived in jerusalem. a lot of it had to do with the fact that we were working journalists. not that easy to move two jobs at once and small children and by having small children we felt we had this incredible access to digital very rare you can cross the front lines of war and drought kids off to school. there are times i would be interviewing masked gunman from the martyrs brigade and i would call greg and said can you peak emily up from preschool? i am engaged right now. it was absolutely surreal. as a result we grew to have incredible entity -- empa

memphis and charleston railroad which was the confederacy's most important east/west rail connection. the confederates, in their bitter defeat on the west bank of the tennessee, surrendered the chance to stop a decisive union drive and possibly undo much of what theian keys had achieved during the winter and spring campaigning. for the federal army, the path lay open to split the confederacy along the mississippi river and that, in the long run, meant that the rebels could never win the war. that of course was what the campaign was all about. controlling the great father of waters. the confederates had lost the battle. they simply had to win, wrote bruce catten, a crucial effort to save the mississippi valley. historian, rob henry, stated the meaning of shiloh. the issues were the defeat of major armies and the possession of the mississippi. the stake was immense. on june 10, 1862, william tecumsee sherman wrote his wife, i think the mississippi, the great artery of america, and whatever power holds it, hold the continent. and a little later in 1863, he would say, the valley of the mississippi is america. little wonder that sherman pronounce

the plight of the palestinian people its intention is to really hold peaceful demonstrations in the west bank they were planning to meet with palestinian families to plant trees and to gather in bethlehem and they say that this is also an attempt to highlight the way the israeli police and israeli authorities deal with activists all foreigners coming to israel who hold political views not shared by the government there was a small counter demonstration by a group of israelis who started it in go home go to syria what are you doing here israeli police accuse these activists of provoking the situation they said they were intent on disrupting public all day and they really were trying to be legitimized his role this heavy handedness by israel is not something new we've witnessed that a short time ago with the way the israeli police dealt with the land of day commemorations at least one person dead and several other palestinian activists injured throughout the west bank and jerusalem and of course they've been to attend simply vias years for ships to reach gaza those trailers were unsuccessful wi

have also been arrested the organizers say they plan peaceful activities like planting trees in the west bank and they've criticized israel for overreacting let's get on top of this story without ceasing all these intel or other paula all the activists still arriving what's happening from i was the picture of them. well we are receiving reports of more foreign activists arriving later on sunday so thought thirty five international activists have arrived the majority of them being french nationals they have been barred intreat from israel and at the same time they entertained at ben-gurion international airport now of the forty five twenty nine have already been taken to running a prison in the same to of the country from where according to the israeli police spokespeople they will be deported the remaining sixteen are still at the airport and will be put back on flights later on sunday to be returned to their home countries they are part of this international campaign that has been dubbed to palestine and the intention of this campaign is to highlight the plight of the palestinian people ther

also been arrested the organizers said they planned peaceful activities like planting trees in the west bank and they criticized israel for overreacting paula sleeze in tel aviv. well we are receiving reports of more foreign activists arriving late on sunday so thought the five international activists have arrived the majority of them being french nationals they have been barred intreat from israel and at the same time they're in detained at ben-gurion international airport now of the forty five twenty nine have really been taken to running a prison in the center of the country where according to the israeli police spokespeople they will be deported the remaining sixteen are still at the airport and will be put back on flights later on sunday to be returned to their home countries they are part of this international campaign that has been dubbed to palestine essentially what the activists are saying is that this is a peaceful try to its intention is to really hold peaceful demonstrations in the west bank they were planning to meet with palestinian families to plant trees and to gather in bet

within a few miles of the memphis and charleston railroad, the confederacy's most important east/west rail connection. the confederates on the west bank of the tennessee surrendered the chance to stop a decisive union drive and possibly undo much of what the yankees had achieved during the winter and spring campaigning. for the federal army, the path lay open to split the confederacy along the mississippi river and that in the long run men the rebels could never win the war. that was what it was all about, controlling the great father of waters. the con federals hads lo the a battle they simply had to win. robert henry sus sinkly stated, the issues were the defeat of major armies. the stake was immense. on june 10, 1862, william tecumseh sherman wrote his wife, i think the mississippi, the great artery of america and whatever power holds it, holds the continent. a little later, in 1863, he would say, the valley of the mississippi is america. a little wonder that sherman pronounced shiloh one of the most important victories that has ever occurred on this continent. he also considered it the turning point that made possible all our west

activities in the west bank is endangering the two-state solution. >> building settlements is illegal according to international laws. and expansion of israeli settlements means eroding territories slated for the future palestinian state. that would make an independent palestinian state more difficult. so abbas said israel must put an end to expanding settlements totally. >> but will the israelis ever agree to that? >> i don't think so. netanyahu's main support comes from the right wing and from the jewish settlers, themselves. the settlers would not give up their land and netanyahu has been refusing to recognize the pre-1960 civil war boundaries as a basis for the future borders. >> so then how will the palestinians respond to that? >> well, abbas has played out the scenarios. this is how he says things will unfold. >> after we exchange letters, if we get nothing, the americans will bring some options, as they told us, when we find that there's no way with the israelis to return back. maybe an option to seek for a non-member state, we'll call it a non-member state in the general asse

and expansion in the west bank. this time around he got a reprieve, they only talk about iran and israeli is the underdog. the iranians at the same time -- >> that's far more questions -- >> instead of 90 barrels -- >> if we could wrap it up. we have a really long line behind you. >> iran is getting -- the price for oil san diego 90 a barrel and the world price now is $120 because of the crisis. so they are pocketing $100 million every day because of that crisis. thank you. >> thank you. >> i can try to go very quickly. i think the prospect of iran directly using a nuclear weapon or transferring it to a group like hezbollah or a palestinian militant group to use against israel is extraordinarily low. for the reasons you point out, for the religion reasons, think iranians fancy themselves as the champions of resistance and growing up millions don't advance that cause and it risks massive retaliation. it would end the islamic republic and end the revolution. it's hard to see what regime would be better for that. as it

the only thing we ask you as a government to withdraw from the west bank and give the palestinian the they mentioned that. >> again they repeated that in 2007, twice. the whole arab countries, the arab league. you know, asked israel twice, saying we are willing to recognize you. as governments, recognize the government and the only thing we ask you again to give the palestinians a little bit of land and -- >> that would mean -- never accepted. >> jerusalem, a red line. >> not ehud barak. >> you brought up how there's this lobby that affects congress, but not so much the executive branch and if zionism is more allied with the right, where does the president of united states stand, where does barack obama stand who today does take verbally positions on settlements and is seen by some in the right as being completely anti-israel, but is still lock-step with israeli policies. >> the never forgive the arab world. i traveled last year to tunisia, qatar, they always tell me, we always had so much admiration of the president. then one day we see prime minister putting his finger in the face o

lethal ideas but it it's about power they have to cower to colonize continue the colonization of the west bank no east and that's to the one state yeah fine it'll be a zionist like the way by the way you are absolutely you are absolutely right about it but. the these issues are already discussed and by the way the we're not discussed forty or fifty years ago thirty years ago twenty years ago they started this issues are discussed is because israelis do understand and many jews around the world they demand not be able to maintain this power for forever now i would agree with. i don't think that israel is going to become a one state or state of its citizens voluntarily but i think it will be pushed into it because the israelis are now already living in ghettos and wider living in ghettos because they feel insecure and why do they feel insecure because they brought this insecurity upon themselves and were aware of it and israel proved in the past that it can change rapidly and that this is this will take more than half an hour to deal with but again it's some elements within jewish and a brew and

and gaza should be described not as the west bank and gaza, not jude aa, but as undemocratic israel. the argument being that you have millions of palestinians there who have no vote and no state. is that a fair characterization of the west bank as undemocratic israel? >> i didn't read the book, so i cannot make a statement about, but it's clear the deeper reason to have these -- a solution of two states for two people is in order to make sure that israel -- within which we'll have a solely jewish majority for generations to come, and beyond which we will have a viable palestinian state with a palestinian majority that will express their identity, their dreams and their aspirations. i think that it's possible. it's that simple. it's possible. it needs goodwill for both sides and readiness to take tough decisions. if israel remains, the only political entity, western of the jordan river, the fact that there are blocks of millions of palestinians and that cannot vote and it makes a problem, and if they can vote, it will make israel a state. it's clear to all of us israelis, including i

gilad atzmon present universe you'd obviously what it what is he going to offer israeli settler in the west bank what kind of a state is he going to offer them this is this is what i think the crucial problem that we have to do is ok i'm our then essentially what we're looking at here is the end of the zionist project. essentially i just want to address his last remark quick i mean i don't want to speak on behalf of anyone people can present their own views but i don't think anybody has suggested that it would be stripped of his right to speak his mind they're just making it clear that they're not of solidarity with his views and that they don't see themselves in alliance because his views are out of what they consider to be acceptable i mean we can have that kind of disagree when nobody's talking about a totalitarian mindset you don't have to be a totalitarian person to express your disagreement with somebody else's views right now in one state in two states i think that there is a. what is the world raised about right now and they're outraged about the occupation about the fact that there is n

in at the proposes that the west bank and gaza should be described not as the west bank and gaza, not as jude day ya and soup mare ya but the undemocratics i real you have millions of palestinian there is who have no vote and no state. is that a fair characterization of the west bank, as undemocratic israel? >> i did not read the book so i cannot make kind of a statement about, but it's clear that the -- the deeper reason to have the solution of two states for two people is in order to make sure that israel, we would delineate borderline and have solely majority for generations to come and beyond which we will have a viable palestinian state with a majority, where they express their i.d., their dreams and their aspirations and i think it's possible, not simple, it's possible, it needs goodwill from both sides, readiness to take tough decision and certain waits, if israel remajor the only political entity, west of the jordan riff earthquake the fact there is are blocks of millions of palestinians, they cannot vote to the knesset makes it public. fanned they can vote to the keep necessa

the plight of the palestinian people its intention is to really hold peaceful demonstrations in the west bankthey were planning to meet with palestinian families climb trees and together. this is also an attempt to highlight the way the israeli police in these rebel forces deal with activists all foreigners coming to israel who hold political views not shared by that was a small. ladies who shouted at them go home go to syria what are you doing here the israeli police accuse these activists of provoking the situation they say that they were intent on destruct in public all then they really were trying to be legitimized his role this heavy handedness by israel is not something new we've witnessed a bit of a short time ago with the way the israeli police dealt with the day commemorations if you have one person dead and several other palestinian activists injured throughout the west bank from jerusalem and then of course they've been to attend sim previous years for ships to reach gaza those photos were unsuccessful with the first one resulting in nine activists killed. with the french only a we

million arabs living in israel plus another 2 million within 14 miles of tel aviv, for example, the west bank is 14 miles from tel aviv, the gaza strip is 40 miles from tel aviv. it's not a jewish state, really. there are millions of arabs living in the same territory, living and working, and as mentioned, jerusalem is the site of the third most sacred place for islam. so i don't see any -- barring an accident, i don't see any reason for iran to attack israel, because for israel there is no reason to attack iran, because, first of all, iran will not attack them and also the israel economy is booming, the stock market apparently is not paying attention to the crisis because it's going higher and higher. so what do you think about this? i'd also like to ask you about this crisis atmosphere which is created. so to what extent does it benefit both israel and iran in a sense that for israel diverting attention from the palestinian issue -- usually when an israeli prime minister is coming to washington he's being rebuked for bank settlements, for expansion in the west bank. this time around he got

very different group of palestinians living in the gaza strip compared to the west bank which is a more secular minded group of palestinians. there's no one to negotiate with on the palestinian side because you have the division between hamas and the 5 top leadership. the years we spent in jerusalem, most foreign correspondents spend three years max covering the conflict because you get burned out and felt it would leave feeling there was no hope, don't want to hear about it anymore. there is quite a dearth of writing by correspondents who lived in jerusalem. a lot of it had to do with the fact that we were working journalists. not that easy to move two jobs at once and small children and by having small children we felt we had this incredible access to digital very rare you can cross the front lines of war and drought kids off to school. there are times i would be interviewing masked gunman from the martyrs brigade and i would call greg and said can you peak emily up from preschool? i am engaged right now. it was absolutely surreal. as a result we grew to have incredible entity -- empa

israeli army closed the west bank border yesterday soldiers deployed at check points and in the west of ramallah. passover begins tonight ends saturday. >>> special airport terminal for pro athletes-only in san jose. city officials say they have 44 acres of land to build a private terminal on the we have side of the san jose international airport just for the sharks, earthquakes and 49ers. two companies will bring almost 1300 workers to san jose and occupy 336,000 square feet of commercial space. the companies are in semiconductor business. more on the heh+játj in this morning's print edition of the silicon valley business journal. >>> coffee connoisseurs can rejoice a cult favor -- cult favorite just got easier to get. thanks to an app. >> coffee is art like frank sinatra was to sing, i was born to make could have >> reporter: almost 10 years after phil founded phil's coffee the line is out the door. poured by hand, stirred by hand. one of the oldest methods of making coffee. high-tech trend setters wait apparently, five sometimes 10 minutes for that perfectly crafted cup. what if yo

christian worshipers on the west bank town of bethlehem also attended mass at the site of the nativity, the site where jesus was born. >>> renting may be cheaper. >>> at 4:51, officials in london are taking steps to make sure everyone stays healthy during the summer olympic games. >> we are back in two minutes. you are watching 9news now. ♪ okay, so who ordered the cereal that can help lower cholesterol and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. that's yours. lower cholesterol. lower cholesterol. i'm yummy. lower cholesterol. i got that wrong didn't i? [ male announcer ] want great taste? honey nut cheerios. want whole grain oats that can help lower cholesterol? honey nut cheerios. it's a win win. good? [ crunching, sipping ] be happy. be healthy. can i try yours? >>> good morning, welcome back to 9news now. hopefully, if you are enjoying this day off you are still watching us and having a great day. if you have to go to work, howard's here to tell you how to dress for it. >> reporter: a windbreaker for sure. another windy day. been windy for days. >> and really dry. >> reporter: really

be a democratic jewish state and the danger, one of the dangers i see is when israel controls the west bank. that threatens israel democracy. it's one that i believe very strongly and why i wrote the book. >> you talk about the risk really to israel is is not an, ternl risk which i think everyone if we were asked to tick off where the risk to israel lie they would be external risk. >> there are internal risks as well but my fear if you create one state which includes the west bank and millions of palestinians who don't have the right to citizenship and the right to vote you force israel to choose between being a democracy and being a state with a jewish majority that can protect the jewish people and it seems to me that will make the external threats worse because it will create a situation of permanent war. >> peter, so to be clear what you're saying here also is that these areas of settlement within israel, within the west bank, are essentially nondemocratic areas of israel and you have called for some kind of boycott of these areas. what does that mean? >> i've called for us to commit an

. >>> israel has legalized three outposts in the west bank. the decision is drawing sharp criticism from the palestinians. the israeli government is expanding settlements in the occupied territory. there are currently about 100 unauthorized outposts. palestinians condemned the decision. a spokesperson for palestinian president mahmoud abbas on tuesday urgedsrael to stop all settlement construction. abbas sent a letter last week to israel prime minister benjamin netanyahu saying all settlement activity must stop before the peace process can resume. in washington, state department spokesperson victoria nuland said the u.s. was concerned about israel's move. she said the u.s. does not consider the decision helpful to the peace process. nuland said her country has raised the issue with israel. >>> u.s. special envoy for middle east peace david hale is in the region trying to revive the peace process. >>> people in japan's northeast are focused on overcoming the challenging of the 2011 disaster, but it won't be easy. they have to rebuild homes, busi

fewer chances of peace rather than more on this war which is part of the border between israel and the west bank are the faces of the heroes of the palestinian people they've been smiling down from here for years and still nothing's changed but across the atlantic while washington can see a fledgling democracies while all the time ignoring the trouble left in a week not least of all in building an entrenched immovable israel and a palestinian people running out of patience policy r.t. . and aside from the palestinians israel has yet another potential conflict on its hands that is of course in the shape of iran. iran's nuclear ambitions as a threat and says that negotiations are giving the islamic republic more time to develop weapons later today here are see the two sides together for crosstalk for now a preview. the iranian president never said that he will attack or destroy israel he said israel my ceased to exist as a political entity and the willful mistranslation in that i think what he said is clear to our he said basically that this has always been iranian policy that israel as an aparthe

all of those hundreds of thousands of israelis who have been given special privileges to live in the west bank, whether he's prepared to see them come home. obviously big chunks of the west bank that israel has settled would be part of israel in exchange for traded parts of israel. that's always been an understanding between israelis and americans and palestinians. but we are so far, erin, from a negotiation where this could be worked out. i would have to say i don't know if dennis would agree with this, but certainly in the last decade, my observations, we -- it's very hard to envision right now a ceremony on the white house lawn with president obama, prime minister netanyahu and whoever is the palestinian leader negotiated and completing a peace agreement. those kind of ceremonies happened a lot 10, 15 years ago. but we are so far from that for a whole bunch of reasons, one of which is the debate over settlements. >> and dennis, let me ask you a question. let's just -- a fair point that it isn't going to happen. even if he's moved the goal posts closer. but let me ask you this. let's just sa