neil: with theidea, what you think of that? >> the has to be consequence.ly trade is one of the places where you have consequence. you cannot allow people to continue to abuse yourself without following international norms and lot without there being consequence. >> donald trump said and pardon my french, governor, scew them if they are going to, you know, treat us like this. but in a decade or two, will so the only time we have for leverage to make sure that the practices that it exists between two nations that have interest, we want to s free tre and the rule of law. we have a lot in common in terms of interest and they are taking advantage of us right now. if we do not set those rules and make sure we are abiding by them, we are never goin to do it a decador so om now when they don't need us like they did today. this is the backbone and a part of our nation to come up against china if they didn't have to play by the rles. you cannot hack into our computers or there will be consequence. the kinds of trade relations and other relations that you have. neil:

no evidence that you have seen that he had any other intent or motivation except to be driven by theidea you just suggested? >> we have no evidence. there is -- i mean, what he's clearly trying to do is to stay out -- is not to end up as bradley manning. >> rose: sure, i understand that now. but i'm talking about why he did it. you just said that edward snowden did this because he saw this looming big problem and he was so motivated to act in a public interest that he came forward. i'm saying do you -- now that all this has happened-- believe that that is his motivation and there was no other motivation? >> i have no other evidence to suggest he had any other motivation. and janine mentioned that we sent ewan mccaskell who is a -- he's a 60-something presbyterian scot who spent his life -- he's not easily impressed guy and he went out to hong kong and when he came back i said "okay, what did you make of him, ewan?" he said "well, i spent several hours with him and i liked him." >> rose: that's not what you want "i liked him." you want to know -- >> he's a man of few words. he said "i lik