after wards with theresa payton is next. cheryl chumley book "police state u.s.a.: how orwell's nightmare is becoming our reality" traffic light cameras, drone monitoring and more is amounting to a police state that must be rolled back. this program is about an hour. >> host: cheryl, it a pleasure to be here and i enjoyed your book "police state u.s.a.: how orwell's nightmare is becoming our reality" i am a data junky by nature. i love the opportunity to talk with people about how to protect their data. d

the former ceo and white house chief officer theresa payton. data research group. thank you both for joining. theresa let me begin with you. you say that all retailers should regularly employ someone to try and hack their system. is that done on a regular basis, do you think? we know the government does it, but do retailers do that? >> well, if they don't they absolutely should. we do have companies that have white hack hackers to hack them. our recommendation is to retailer industry to move towards a once a month or once a quarter what we're seeing is companies doing it once a year and not looking at it for another year. and those white hack hackers can make a big difference in pointing out vulnerabilities. >> should we assume a breach is going to happen no matter how secure someone thinks their system is. >> you bring up an excellent point. i always say every piece of technology is hackable which means a breach is inevitable. but companies don't need to throw their hands up, there are some creative, different approaches they can take to protective themselves from

after wards with theresa payton is next. cheryl chumley book "police state u.s.a.: how orwell's nightmare is becoming our reality" traffic light cameras, drone monitoring and more is amounting to a police state that must be rolled back. this program is about an hour. >> host: cheryl, it a pleasure to be here and i enjoyed your book "police state u.s.a.: how orwell's nightmare is becoming our reality" i am a data junky by nature. i love the opportunity to talk with people about how to protect their data. and we have so many modern day privacy issues that are coming up. and what i love about what you do is it is so well researched and thoughtful and provoking. so i am excited to talk with you today and have a conversation about what people need to know and is there actually anything we can do about it. i think you gave me a little hope here in the book. one of things i thought was interesting was the nsa revelation. i wrote about that in my book privacy in the age of big data. and consumers don't realize bigs business collecti