congress -- how do you get thom tillis, cory gardner, susan collins. they were great on supporting the president on kavanaugh. they were great on that but they are getting antsy about the shutdown. i'm hearing all the little -- i'm getting calls from people. the shutdown. the government has already shut down to the will of the people on this issue. when you are doing the polling business a few years ago, you demonstrated that. it's not changed. >> 2014. >> laura: i still cite that poll. that was one of the best things ever done. level of immigration, people wanted to stay the same or go down. >> in 2014, president obama had the children of the border crisis. secretary jeh johnson at homeland security then wrote memos that i brought with me tonight. fascinating reads. we were doing the polling in the midst of that and even then, americans agree they want these children by large be returned safely to their home countries. mexico has offered asylum and visas, safe passage to these northern triangle family units and unaccompanied children were coming here.

if those cracks become deeper, you mentioned thom tillis from my home state of north carolina. i'm wearing carolina blue, if thom tillis in a state that donald trump won and won comfortably, starts to move, that may shift the dynamic, but the challenge here is, and a challenge for both republicans and democrats, is why this impasse is going to continue for a lot longer, is both republicans and democrats have found themselves in a moral position on this. you either think the wall is the morally right thing to do or the morally wrong thing to do. and as long as that's your position, it appears this is going to go on for a lot longer. there's not a lot of room for deal making right now. >> on the morality issue of the wall, it's the word choice that nancy pelosi used, right? she said yesterday, a wall is, quote, immoral. there's an immorality to a wall. i wonder by using that language, do you worry she's sort of pushing some democrats, pushing democrats into a corner on this one where they can't get anything? >> no, i absolutely don't. look, the fact is that donald trump on the ca

thom tillis. >> trump voters. >> thom tillis and cory gardner are up in 2020. so it's going to take leadership from the gop to go to donald trump and say we are going to vote to fund the government. and if you veto it, we're going to embarrass you and override your veto for the first time in your presidency. donald trump, the one thing he doesn't like is being embarrassed. and i think that's the only way. barring that, he said yesterday, he's going to continue this for weeks and weeks. imagine having no salary for weeks and weeks. >> no, it's incredible. well, they raised the question, could he relate. he said, yes, i can relate. and we've always adjusted, let them adjust. thank you, dean, wendy and joe. if the president is watching, adjust your screen. i'm not finished with this yet. coming up, i'll ask congresswoman from colorado, why she doesn't want to get paid until this is over. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. when i say, "drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of $412," you probably won't believe me. but you can believe th

you can have thom tillis and susan collins flip what you need 60 votes to pass these issues. that is really been the stumbling block is that 60 vote threshold. even if you have 60 votes as you do on some of these house bills one member objects, it could take up to three days in the senate to get through and it eats up a lot of your time. just understand how dysfunctional the system is. a lot of finger-pointing. you have to see you have two dysfunctional parties. they have their own agendas that are focused on the 2020 election. it looks to me like they're saying we're just can argue this up for 2 years and send it to the voters in 2020 which is a loss of 2 years frankly. in a competitive global economy that is not a good thing. >> i want to ask you one question because tom davis mentioned impeachment. that's going to be a big decision of 2019. the mueller report we think is going to come out soon, a lot of people thought it would come out by now. newt gingrich has said that if the report concludes that trump j walked and the left is going to pushed for impeachment. obviously

thom tillis said said congress is solidly behind the alliance and joined it with another senator.d the president wants to withdraw the u.s. from nato, telling his top security officials the alliance was a drain on the u.s. and he did not see the point of staying in it. >>> coming up, access's mike allen has a look at one more thing. >>> and looking to clarify the future of the probe. and looking to clear fears on the investigation and breaks with president trump with some matters pertaining to that probe. >>> vice chair, mark warner, joins the conversation to report the investigation of mark being an asset. just moments away. just moments . ♪tryin' to hold back this feeling for so long♪ ♪and if you feel, like i feel baby then come on,♪ ♪oh come on let's get it on applebee's all you can eat is here. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. to take care of yourself. but nature's bounty has innovative ways to help you maintain balance and help keep you active and well-rested. because hey, tomorrow's coming up fast. nature's bounty. because you're better off healthy. make ice.d be

thom tillis: "look because crwe that we voted on the president rejected.now we need to see if pelosi and sen. schumer really want to start negotiating in good faith." meanwhile, senate democrats tomorrow are expected to block trump's proposal to reopen the government,which would provide five-point-seven billion dollars for his border wall, while making some immigration changes.sen. chuck schumer: "the first vote is the president's hostage-taking position codified into an amendment."but mcconnell, who has mostly avoided the spotlight in these talks, now aligning himself firmly with trump.sen. mitch mcconnell: "it's hard to think of a good reason to oppose this but my democratic friends are trying to think of something, anything to justify prolonging the stalemate." here in the bay area... an east bay gas station is offering free gas for furloughed federal workers. the valero at the fremont hub .... is stepping up to help those affected by the government shutdown. kron 4's gayle ong is live there now.. with the story... gayle? the owner started offering free

. >> it's not just senator susan collins, fellow gop senators, here they are, corey gardner, thom tillis, lamar alexander, pat roberts, have also called for the shutdown to end while border negotiations continue. indeed, pelosi and schumer want to pass bills that open the government in a piecemeal fashion. if it sounds like a coalition there, perhaps, but it's very important to note all of those senators are either up in 2020 or leaving the place in their rearview mirrors. politico reports republican lawmakers in the house have one number in mind, 55. "that many republican defections, coupled with all house democrats, would reach 290." "290 yes votes, a veto-proof majority. house democrats can't overcome senate majority leader mitch mcconnell's refusal to bring up their bills, but such a vote would signal the house can override a trump veto, a major blow to the president and his allies." who best to talk about this than rick wilson, a proud floridian, proud never trumper. he's a veteran republican strategist whose views about the president are, perhaps, best encapsulated by the title of

thom tillis: "look because we saw that movie before. it's fundamentally the cr that we voted on the president rejected. now we need to see if pelosi and sen. schumer really want to start negotiating in meanwhile, senate democrats tomorrow are expected to block trump's proposal to reopen the government,which would provide five-point-seven billion dollars for his border wall, while making some immigration changes.sen. chuck schumer: "the first vote is the president's hostage-taking position codified into an amenhadmens mostly avoided the spotlight in these talks, now aligning himself firmly with trump.sen. mitch mcconnell: "it's hard to think of a good reason to oppose this but my democratic friends are trying to think of something, anything to justify prolonging the stalemate." (grant) several hundred of the 46-thousand furloughed i-r-s employees called back to work ... have gotten permission to stay off the job. that is due to their financial hardship. nearly 60- percent i-r-s workforce was called back work, without pay, in order to han

to that list, add thom tillis. he blames the far left and the far right who think we should round up all the undocumented immigrants and send them home. how much pressure can the president sustain from this growing list of republicans? >> i think that's where the action is, right? i think donald trump has no incentive to change because he cares about his base, and the base want a wall. and democrats have no incentive to change because they care about their base. the base sees the wall as a symbol of more than just a wall now. of racism and bigotry. and, frankly, democrats believe that they have public opinion on their side. so trump has no incentive to change. democrats have no incentive to change. the one vulnerable group are republicans -- elected republicans who are not donald trump. and so if they start to peel away, that may be the only thing that would bring people to the table. >> to be care, there are risks for democrats here as well. this wave election, they were elected to change things in washington. to

the first two i look at are cory gardener and thom tillis. running for reelection in states trending not blue -- >> i think colorado is blue. >> north carolina, pure swing state. >> those are folks who both on certain issues have been willing to demonstrate independence from the president. i assume it will increase with the economy goes south. >> i am hearing there are members who say -- people say they expect their members to be more vocal, be more critical in the next years. people have told me this. members aren't necessarily up in 2020, but i think there is a frustration there. the russia probe is getting closer and closer. these investigations as we already talked about are going to expand. if the president -- and the president hasn't been able to prove that he's able to govern without anything being chaotic. and so if the -- if his base konlts -- continues to support him but that base is tightening and tightening and then getting back to these center right republicans, i mean, they're going to be critical on how these members respond. >

pressure on some of the moderate senators up for re-election in 2020, susan collins, cory gardner, thom tillisre from their hometown newspapers to reopen the government. i think we're going to see hopefully some momentum in the senate among these moderates in short order. >> if the shutdown lasts weeks, what is the risk that the public is going to start to blame both sides for this? >> i mean, listen, there is always a risk that the public is going to say the pot's on both of your houses. the only thing less popular than washington is, you know, some sort of terrible disease. so washington as a whole is very unpopular. but the president has had ample opportunity here to move on this. he could have had his border wall last year. remember, there was a package that schumer gave him that would have given him funding for the wall. he also could have had the border security before this. he also could have had more money. now democrats are putting less money on the table because the president does not have the leverage anymore. so, again, this is all the president's fault. he doesn't have a strategy.

who are breaking with the administration here like susan collins, like cory gardner, like senator thom tillis of north carolina are correct in saying let's get the government open and deal with border security once it is open and people like you are back to work. is that something you would like to see? >> well, i think i would like to just separate the border security part out of it completely and my focus is on getting the government shutdown back open and the people working. and that clearly was the option prior to the shutdown that was available and it didn't carry through. >> understood. so looking at this again from your perspective, what is your reaction when the president said that this could go on for months or years and there are some of his advisers who say this is political grandstanding there. but how concerning is that to you? >> i'm very concerned for all government shutdown employees affected by the shutdown. separate from the politics behind it, remember that many people, they are dual income households that are -- that receive their financial security from their federal jobs

>> i think it's interesting that scott is saying this this morning ninkt it's interesting that thom tillis and cory gardner and susan collins were saying end the shutdown and make a deal. i think it's interesting that jared kushner walked into these negotiations willing to talk, perhaps about dreamers this weekend. i find that all very interesting. >> because when your hear racial thought, it does get your attention. >> what it tells me is there is pressure. there's building pressure within the republican party do something. question is how will the white house respond to is it? one facet was the sarah sanders. the other is the president saying steel slats. >> barrier. >> slats is such a great word. >> it is but i don't know if we've lost that if now we're at a steel barrier, like a flat steel barrier, i just can't tell anymore. >> i can't tell either. but, joe, $6 billion include 234 miles of new fencing or new barrier. the democrats this we've had on, right, you ask them would you allow for any new fence something well, maybe. so is there a deal from the democrats side if there's give an

by the way, he's also got a caucus where he has people like thom tillis, cory gardner, susan collins. folks you mentioned, willing to actually come and find middle ground here. i think what you're seeing from mitch mcconnell is trying to play both sides. trying to take care of his vulnerable moderates in the senate and not offend the president at the same time. >> you just heard joel mention some republican there's. senate republicans, who have been wobbling a little on this shutdown. calling for a compromise. butting a little more pressure on the president. do you expect to see more fracturing among the gop as this goes on and is it likely to be enough to force the president's hand in all this? >> yes, and possibly yes. first of all, remember, mitch mcconnell knows he's got 22 republican senate seats to defend in 2020. to the democrats' 12. i think we have to get used to him giving a wirng ank and nod letting a lot of republicans peel off to do what they need to do back home. as the economic pain starts kicking in with a shutdown not just for the people not getting a federal paycheck

defend and follow the special counsel integrity and independence act that senator lindsey graham and thom tillisntroduced along with senator booker and myself. >> are you going to try to get from him the commitment that elliot richardson gave to ted kennedy that he would resign if he were forced to fire mueller? >> yes. yes. that's important precedent to remind folks about. the saturday night massacre back during the watergate investigation where president nixon ordered elliot richardson to fire the special prosecutor, he refused, and he resigned instead in protest. that followed a confirmation hearing where elliot richardson was asked exactly that question. if pressed to interfere or intervene with the investigation or to fire the special prosecutor, will you resign in protest? elliot richardson said yes, and he followed that commitment. that's exactly the sort of exchange i expect we'll be having tomorrow in the judiciary committee with william barr. >> by the way, in reference to that, nixon had the honor and respect for institutions to honor that deal. i'm not sure trump will. but let me ask

say members like susan collins, thom tillis, cory gardner, joni ernst, senators who are going to be upn and so mcconnell has to make a decision. do i support the president in his position or do i help my most vulnerable members in this election cycle, who certainly are not going to want a prolonged shutdown? and if i'm mcconnell, i have to be more answerable, i think, to my members, who elect me as majority leader. so i think this is a -- i think the senate republicans are going to be in a really tough spot here over the coming -- over the coming days, the longer this thing drags on. >> julie, the president has made it clear, he won't accept anything less than $5 billion for his wall. has he set himself up so that anything less than that will look like he's lost the battle? or to mike's point, this is a public negotiation and if he accepts less, it's all part of the deal. >> i think he has in a lot of ways painted himself into a corner here. he continues to come back to this $5 billion figure. he even shot down the $2.5 billion proposal that mike pence floated with democrats a couple o

. >> thom tillis from north carolina who is also up for reelection. you are going to see i think some breakage or are already seeing it. i think the fact that ironically, that one facet of government that is suffering is of course homeland security, because that's the funding bill. now that doesn't mean that urgently required people aren't at their post. they are, but if you ever saw something that was totally counterproductive to their end goal of securing the border, you could shut down the department of homeland security by funding it not properly. so i think eventually the democrats i think will whittle away at the sort of oblivio obliviousness of the republicans, and you're going see more cory gardeners pretty soon stepping forward and saying you know, we really have to win this. i have to run in another 18 months or two years, and i'm going to look like a jerk if i was the guy who couldn't keep the lights on. >> you know, part of the weirdness of the shutdown is that it's unclear what it's for in this sense, and adam was talking about the ration

you could have thom tillis and susan collins flip but you need 60 votes to pass the issue.t's been the stumbling block. even if you have 60 votes, one member objects it could take up to three days to get it through. just understand how dysfunctional the system is. a lot of finger-pointing. you have two dysfunctional parties. they have their own agendas focused on 2020 election. looks to me like they're saying were just going to argue this out and send it to the voters which is a loss of two years in a competitive economy that's not a good thing. >> tom davis mentioned impeachment. that's a big decision of 2019. the molar report will come out soon. a lot of people thought it will come out by now. new has said that if it concludes that trump j walked in the left will push for impeachment. there has been allegations but a lot of it we do not know. do you think that your party in the house will move to impeach trump because you have nearly 70 democrats who said impeachment should move forward and once again, nancy pelosi is running the house. >> i hope not. from a democratic st

neil: there is the shut down, north carolina republican senator thom tillis telling me yesterday on "ur world" on fox news, he has his concerns. do you worry though what is happening here, means that a lot of other things you do want to see get done are not going to get done? >> i'm worried about that. there are so many things we continue to work on together. i'm very concerned right now that we're doing virtually nothing. i'm you one of these members willing to settle for something less than perfect to make progress but i do believe the president is right to say a part of this impasse only gets broken up, once we figure out a viable strategy for securing the border. neil: center for freedom, prosperity cofounder dan mitch chem. both side are surprised this is dragging on, i could be wrong, you're closer to the fire than i am, if it goes on weeks more, some say months more, then what? >> i think the democrats made a miscalculation, they assumed that a partial government shut down will get people all upset, who is ever going to notice that there is no department of housing or urban dev

for mitch mcconnell to hold his members, i would think, unless cory gardner and susan collins and thom tillisd a lot of other republicans want to go into early retirement next year. >> all right. our thanks to philip rucker for being on this morning. still ahead, there's a crisis emerging at the mexican border, not thousands of terrorists, though, streaming into the country. rather it's the conditions at migrant shelters. that new reporting is next on "morning joe." >>> i have never had so much support as i have in the last week over my stance for border security, for border control and for, frankly, the wall or the barrier. i have never had anything like it in terms of calls coming in, in terms of people writing in and tweeting and doing whatever they have to do. i've never had this much support and we've done some things that, as you know, have been very popular. >> you know, mika, at the risk of repeating ourselves, that was a complete lie. >> i know. >> only 25%, as you know, only 25% of americans support this president shutting down the government to build his phony wall. >> joining us n

you have senators thom tillis, murkowski, collins, portman, alexander, they are trying to get dick durbinybe cardin, some other democrats maybe manchin as a part of kind of a gang of 8 cobbling together a lot of bills that democrats actually put forward in previous comprehensive immigration plans, and they are trying to get to some negotiated deal. but, you can hear the rhetoric on both sides it doesn't sound great. and there is also the case that if you goat a compromise county leaders in both chambers deliver? can they deliver the votes to actually get it across the finish line? in this environment with this new congress we don't know the answer to that. >> sandra: it's fascinating. i'm just listening, bret, and you be talking about tomorrow is a new day and the look and feel of this shutdown begins to change and the weight of it. we certainly begin to feel in a bigger way than we have in the past. i just wonder who shoulders the responsibility of that more. president trump once said he would be proud to own this shutdown for the border wall. who will feel that the most? which party wil

discuss a bill to end the shutdown with several senators, are rob portman and is a murkowski and thom tillisusan collins. they were trying to figure out a way, a plan to end this shutdown. if you look at the emergency money and the february 2018 emergency supplemental, then it allows $13.9 billion. that's available money that can be used to cover natural disasters. and the president is saying this could be considered a national disaster. steve: right. these particular programs were for flood control, not per se disaster relief. nonetheless, keep in mind, every time the president talks about he might do it, he keeps saying if congress doesn't negotiate with me. i have heard from people close to the negotiation that while he may be asking for $5.6 billion, i heard the sound bite he'll settle for anything in the 2s. remember, it sounded like the senate was going to give him 1.3. he sees anything in the 2s. the 2 billion-dollar range as a win and as soon as the democrats comes to the table and offers him, mr. president, the offer is 2 billion something, he will say sold. brian: that's interestin

he might create some room and some space for other folks like cory gardner, like thom tillis , who haseenllis critical of trump, especially in his threatening tone toward the mueller investigation. right now there just isn't this big force of people beyond mitt romney. susan collins has gone back and forth into which cap she has been a part of. lindsey graham, the same thing. host: are there freshman to watch? guest: i definitely think there are. he isolly of missouri, the statement -- state attorney general. somemes in and gives breath of fresh air to younger conservatives. marsha blackburn of tennessee, keep your eye on her. she is a house member for 18 years before getting sworn in today in the senate. she is going to be on the judiciary committee, that has previously only had zero women republicans on it. she is going to be a presence on that committee. you will see her in the fbi hearings, attorney general hearings next week. host: democrats have control of the house. republicans have control of the senate. power that minority leader chuck schumer has over the next two years. how

he might create some room and some space for other folks like cory gardner, like thom tillis , who has beenllis critical of trump, especially in his threatening tone toward the mueller investigation. right now there just isn't this big force of people beyond mitt romney. susan collins has gone back and forth into which cap she has been a part of. lindsey graham, the same thing. host: are there freshman to watch? guest: i definitely think there are. he isolly of missouri, the statement -- state attorney general. somemes in and gives breath of fresh air to younger conservatives. marsha blackburn of tennessee, keep your eye on her. she is a house member for 18 years before getting sworn in today in the senate. she is going to be on the judiciary committee, that has previously only had zero women republicans on it. she is going to be a presence on that committee. you will see her in the fbi hearings, attorney general hearings next week. host: democrats have control of the house. republicans have control of the senate. power that minority leader chuck schumer has over the next two years. ho