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Aug 30, 2014
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thurgood marshall went to saidrsity of texas and this is no secret. this is what i have been trying to do all this time. was a huge rally, an integrated rally and when marshall finished speaking everyone clapped and was very excited and the white student a student leader got up and took the microphone and thanked mr. marshall for coming have a big announcement to make, today we've signed the papers and it's an naacp we now have chapter at our white university of texas and the whole place went crazy and no one could hear what the young man said after that. it was no secret that they were segregation.ck they just did it slowly and took some time and by the time they got to 1950 they had the precedent because what we have now, we have an adult sitting in the classroom. how can a state, a state is not allowed to sit an adult in a banner thatneath a says "colored student section" to sittate is allowed thousands of children in a fording across the street colored children. you can't have both. the constitution cannot allow both. no logical document can allow
thurgood marshall went to saidrsity of texas and this is no secret. this is what i have been trying to do all this time. was a huge rally, an integrated rally and when marshall finished speaking everyone clapped and was very excited and the white student a student leader got up and took the microphone and thanked mr. marshall for coming have a big announcement to make, today we've signed the papers and it's an naacp we now have chapter at our white university of texas and the whole place went...
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Aug 13, 2014
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justice thurgood marshall took merciless pleasure in narrating the clips, an elegant former wall street lawyer who was by as then losing his eyesight. marshall would basically say, okay, john, look what's okay, happeningjo now. look what he's doing, look what she's doing.mocking mocking justice potter stewart's insistence that i know it when a see it, clerk's would call out in the dark, i see it, i see it] in 1968, about 20 years after serving in the u.s. navy, a still youthful steward reflected on more adventurous times and confided in a particularly curious clerk.clerk you might wonder who that was, think you'll all guess, that he, had indeed seen it.seen when i said, mr. justice, have you seen it? he said just once off the coast of algiers.algi and that's all i was ever able e to learn about what it was that he saw. well, that's all i want to say i about the book, and i welcome your questions. thank you for your attention. [ applause ] >> you had your hand up? please, make sure you have the . mic. >> justice thurgood marshall. [ inaudible ] it is the traditionist role to a say what t
justice thurgood marshall took merciless pleasure in narrating the clips, an elegant former wall street lawyer who was by as then losing his eyesight. marshall would basically say, okay, john, look what's okay, happeningjo now. look what he's doing, look what she's doing.mocking mocking justice potter stewart's insistence that i know it when a see it, clerk's would call out in the dark, i see it, i see it] in 1968, about 20 years after serving in the u.s. navy, a still youthful steward...
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Aug 10, 2014
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i think ruth bader ginsburg was the thurgood marshall.now tell us how you decided to bring the heller case and what your strategy was and what it feels like to lead to thurgood marshall's amendment. >> well, appreciate the compliment. the sad reality is all i did was simply argue the law that's been understood for centuries by great people and research and extensively by countless others. it is not a surprise that the early part of the 20th century cords were not running around striking on gun laws. it was not until the 1920s dealing with the first amendment they are enacting congress was invalidated the fact of the matter is not into very deep into the 20th century was that even unders to piece by piece, sometimes hearing their. i took a long time to litigate those issues and throughout most of our history, the federal government does not regulate firearms to much of anything else and we just didn't really see a whole lot of the belmont was certainly until new laws came out in 1930. so of course as is true with much of the constitution,
i think ruth bader ginsburg was the thurgood marshall.now tell us how you decided to bring the heller case and what your strategy was and what it feels like to lead to thurgood marshall's amendment. >> well, appreciate the compliment. the sad reality is all i did was simply argue the law that's been understood for centuries by great people and research and extensively by countless others. it is not a surprise that the early part of the 20th century cords were not running around striking...
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Aug 8, 2014
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without thurgood marshall and many others, we wouldn't have had any basis for marching.ot out of here 63 years ago. and i said, lord, if you give me one more chance, i promise you, i'll do better. but i didn't foe what had happened to me here. i say i neglected my studies and none of my teachers knew my name, but i got one hell of an education. and don't plaid yourselves cheap. don't let anyone else define you. now, let me go to december 17th, 1962. fred shuttlesworth churj was bombed. it was bombed for the third time in the last 18 mobts. nobody had ever been charged or investigated. fred shuttlesworth came to see martin luther kick and said, first of all, the house came pleatly down and everybody was sure that fred was dead and he walks out of there with his shirt and tie on and says if this didn't kill me, you know, i can do anything i want to do. so he kwam to atlanta and got us to say that we couldn't sit back and wait for deseg ra gags. we koupdn't continue to be passively nonviolent. there had be an aggressive non-violent movement. us to say that we couldn't sit b
without thurgood marshall and many others, we wouldn't have had any basis for marching.ot out of here 63 years ago. and i said, lord, if you give me one more chance, i promise you, i'll do better. but i didn't foe what had happened to me here. i say i neglected my studies and none of my teachers knew my name, but i got one hell of an education. and don't plaid yourselves cheap. don't let anyone else define you. now, let me go to december 17th, 1962. fred shuttlesworth churj was bombed. it was...
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Aug 13, 2014
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i assume this -- >> that's not thurgood marshall, john marshall. >> 210 years ago. is this still the case? because my question is about the case, very tantalizing, about jerusalem and the question of citizenship. you quote the case that the court decided that the judiciary has the right to intervene. it took the site of the congress which voted to enable the person to claim israeli citizenship but you don't give the outcome. >> because the case is still pending. >> oh, it's still pending? >> it was in the court twice, just like the case of the woman carol anne bond, who poisoned her best friend -- or tried to, it was a botched job, she put this arsenic compound on doorknobs and other things but all she did was turn her best friend's fingers red. the question was whether, when she was prosecute bid the u.s. government for violating the law passed to enforce the chemical weapons treaty, which is a little bit odd, this is an ago that chr -- agatha christie's domestic dispute, challenged it on whether or not it's state rights and the obama administration said no, no, sh
i assume this -- >> that's not thurgood marshall, john marshall. >> 210 years ago. is this still the case? because my question is about the case, very tantalizing, about jerusalem and the question of citizenship. you quote the case that the court decided that the judiciary has the right to intervene. it took the site of the congress which voted to enable the person to claim israeli citizenship but you don't give the outcome. >> because the case is still pending. >> oh,...
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Aug 2, 2014
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justice marshall -- in the 300s, the traditional role to say what the law is. >> that is not thurgood marshall, that is john marshall. >> ten years ago. if this is the case my question is about the case, tantalizing in jerusalem and citizenship. you, quote a case that the court decided judicially has the right to intervene. the congress which voted to enable the person to claim is really citizenship but don't give the outcome. >> the case is still pending. was in the court twice just like the case of the woman, carol and bond, who poisoned her best friend, or tried to, a botched job, she put this arsenic compounds on doorknobs but all she did was turn her best friend's fingers read. the question was whether she was prosecuted by the u.s. government for violating the law passed to enforce the chemical weapons treaty which is a little bit odd day. this is an agatha christie domestic dispute. that question was whether she could challenge congress's law on the ground that it violated states' rights and the obama administration said she has no stand even though she's a friend with imprisonment. the
justice marshall -- in the 300s, the traditional role to say what the law is. >> that is not thurgood marshall, that is john marshall. >> ten years ago. if this is the case my question is about the case, tantalizing in jerusalem and citizenship. you, quote a case that the court decided judicially has the right to intervene. the congress which voted to enable the person to claim is really citizenship but don't give the outcome. >> the case is still pending. was in the court...
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Aug 16, 2014
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king, what thurgood marshall, supreme court justice, said and felt about dr. king, he was the most controversial figure in the country including inside of black america. so he is murdered on this balcony in memphis a year after giving that speech to the day, april 4, '68, he's dead on that balcony. he dies not having any idea of the monument and the holiday and the postage stamp. took us a long time to come to terms with him. the problem now is the reason i wrote this book is that he's become so sanitized and so sterilized and even lionized that we really haven't come to terms with who he really was, what he really wanted us to address, and we're trying to honor him on the cheap, if you will. but we still haven't come to terms with addressing that triple threat of racism, poverty and militarism. and were he here now, he'd be on those issues every day. >> host: how did you research this book? >> guest: with the help of a young man named jared hernandez, he's one of my staff people who i want to give a shout out to. a lot of good research to pull these facts tog
king, what thurgood marshall, supreme court justice, said and felt about dr. king, he was the most controversial figure in the country including inside of black america. so he is murdered on this balcony in memphis a year after giving that speech to the day, april 4, '68, he's dead on that balcony. he dies not having any idea of the monument and the holiday and the postage stamp. took us a long time to come to terms with him. the problem now is the reason i wrote this book is that he's become...
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Aug 13, 2014
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. >>> record rainfall flooded parking lots at bwi thurgood marshal airport. travellers are coming home to this. many cars up to their bumpers in water. topper says a little over 6.2 inches of rain fell there, and the rain did not affect the flights. >>> another day, another huge loss of hollywood. actress lauren bacall died today in new york. she was 89. >> she rode to fame in hollywood's golden age and stole the heart of america's leading man. >> you know, i went to a lot of trouble to get you out of here. >> lauren bacall became a star in her first film, to have and to have not. in her husky voice, she delivered one of the most famous lines in history. >> you know how to whistle, don't you, steve? you just put your lips together and blow. >> and she perfected her trademark look, chin down, eyes up to the camera, a look that actually came about by accident. >> i was nervous, i had no confidence in myself, and so i found that the only way i could keep my head still would be to hold my head down and then look up. >> bacall was born betty joan pursky, the daug
. >>> record rainfall flooded parking lots at bwi thurgood marshal airport. travellers are coming home to this. many cars up to their bumpers in water. topper says a little over 6.2 inches of rain fell there, and the rain did not affect the flights. >>> another day, another huge loss of hollywood. actress lauren bacall died today in new york. she was 89. >> she rode to fame in hollywood's golden age and stole the heart of america's leading man. >> you know, i went...
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Aug 9, 2014
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>> let me also say when i took office in 79 january 2 i was sworn in by thurgood marshall the associate justice of the supreme court who at one point had worked to get me out of jail with a defense fund. that was a big event for us. washington d.c. back in those days and washingtonians maybe don't like me to say this, it was a sleepy southern town, a sleepy southern town. this building was not here. this complex is not here. only one building, the fbi building and f street in g street and the west and didn't have any major high-rise buildings. but look at washington now. look at it now. it didn't just happen overnight. it took a lot of work, a lot of vision, a lot of tenacity. for instance i pointed herb miller who was a white developer and committed 70 or 80 people. they made recommendations and also i reorganize the permit department and welcomes business in washington. we doubled the number of hotel rooms since i started. i think that's important that we see the big picture because i painted a large picture for her city. again all this is replete, courage and tenacity and vision and
>> let me also say when i took office in 79 january 2 i was sworn in by thurgood marshall the associate justice of the supreme court who at one point had worked to get me out of jail with a defense fund. that was a big event for us. washington d.c. back in those days and washingtonians maybe don't like me to say this, it was a sleepy southern town, a sleepy southern town. this building was not here. this complex is not here. only one building, the fbi building and f street in g street and...
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Aug 11, 2014
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>> let me also say that when i took office in '79, january 2nd, i was sworn in my thurgood marshall whohad at one point worked to get me out of jail because he was the naacp legal defense fund. and that was a big event for us. but washington, d.c., back in those days, native washingtonions don't like me to say this. it was a sleep y southern town. sleepy southern town. this building was not here. this complex was not here. pennsylvania avenue had only one building, the fbi building. and f street, g street, all those streets, the west end didn't have any major high rise buildings. look at washington now. look at it now. and it didn't just happen overnight. it took a lot of work. a lot of vision. a lot of tenacity. for instance, i brought in herb miller, a white developer, as chair of my living downtown committee. 70 or 80 people. they came up with some very big recommendations. also i reorganized the permit department and welcomed business to come to washington. we have doubled the number of hotel rooms since when i started. so i think that's important that we see the big picture because
>> let me also say that when i took office in '79, january 2nd, i was sworn in my thurgood marshall whohad at one point worked to get me out of jail because he was the naacp legal defense fund. and that was a big event for us. but washington, d.c., back in those days, native washingtonions don't like me to say this. it was a sleep y southern town. sleepy southern town. this building was not here. this complex was not here. pennsylvania avenue had only one building, the fbi building. and f...
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Aug 11, 2014
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>> well, let me also say when i took office in '79, january 2nd, i was sworn in by thurgood marshall. he was then aacp leader defense fund. that was a big event for us. washington, d.c. back in those day. many washingtonians don't like me to say this. it was a sleepy southern town. sleepy southern town. there were no -- this building was not here. this complex was not here. one building, fbi building, and f street, g street, all those streets, all the west end, didn't have any major high rise building. we had a building height restriction. look at washington now. look at it now. it didn't just happen overnight. it took a lot of work. a lot of vision. a lot of deny past. for instance, i appointed herb miller, who's a white developer, as chairman of my downtown living. they came up with great recommendations. also, i reorganized the permit department and welcomed business to come to washington. we've doubled the number of hotel rooms since when i started. so i think that's important that we see the big picture because i painted a large picture of -- a large photograph of our city. again
>> well, let me also say when i took office in '79, january 2nd, i was sworn in by thurgood marshall. he was then aacp leader defense fund. that was a big event for us. washington, d.c. back in those day. many washingtonians don't like me to say this. it was a sleepy southern town. sleepy southern town. there were no -- this building was not here. this complex was not here. one building, fbi building, and f street, g street, all those streets, all the west end, didn't have any major high...
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Aug 1, 2014
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if you think back to thurgood marshall. he had to retire in 1999 under george h.w.d was replaced by clarence thomas to the right of scalia. think of how many major supreme court decisions would have gone the other way if marshall had been able to wait two years and retire under clinton. so if ginsburg really does care about these causes she's been fighting for for so long, you would think it would be a really big deal for her to retire under a president who would replace someone who was equal to her in terms of liberalness. >> part of the strangeness here, of course, is the actuarial speculation that we all must engage in when considering the court which offering obviously lifetime tenure. they don't have to leave unless they're impeached which i don't think has ever happened. so, you know, everyone's looking and saying, well, you know, these justices are pretty old and obviously ruth bader ginsburg is a cancer survivor and there's something uncomfortable about the political speculation, yet that's the brute fact of the matter, right? >> it is the brute fact of the
if you think back to thurgood marshall. he had to retire in 1999 under george h.w.d was replaced by clarence thomas to the right of scalia. think of how many major supreme court decisions would have gone the other way if marshall had been able to wait two years and retire under clinton. so if ginsburg really does care about these causes she's been fighting for for so long, you would think it would be a really big deal for her to retire under a president who would replace someone who was equal...
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Aug 9, 2014
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and he's the chairman of the thurgood marshall scholarship fund. you like black people so much? he said i really don't. now he didn't exactly say it this way but that's probably not the best thing to say so i said let me get this to you one more time. he said it is a layoff answer it anyway you want. he said i just want america to win. he just wants everybody in the water growing as fast as they can at the point i wouldn't have written this book if it wasn't for gym because i wa jim becausf hope that i didn't have the da data. there were these facts and statistics that i could back up and it changed my whole life and we have a 100 year commitment that provides strength for every kid they don't have a gallup foundation. ladies and gentlemen, say thank you. [applause] how can they save capitalism? we already are. 70% of the economy is consumer spending. that is you or me paying rent and mortgages and utility bills and for what are. it's buying breakfast for your family and it is micro- transaction that you're talking about in silicon valley. that's w
and he's the chairman of the thurgood marshall scholarship fund. you like black people so much? he said i really don't. now he didn't exactly say it this way but that's probably not the best thing to say so i said let me get this to you one more time. he said it is a layoff answer it anyway you want. he said i just want america to win. he just wants everybody in the water growing as fast as they can at the point i wouldn't have written this book if it wasn't for gym because i wa jim becausf...
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ublic-private partnership for the supreme court designed by edward lair booe barnes, that a thurgood marshall judicial building. senate for if senate, the office. and then the roman temple design kass gilbert of the united states supreme xourt. and then of course the thomas building and the john adams and the madison building the e library of commerce, jefferson building widely acclaimed in 1987 has the most america building in and many people still think it is today. power there a capitol plant where we make the steam and chilled water to heat and all of the 17 million square feet of space across capitol hill. and then bartholy park recently the united states botanic garden that has been part f our inventory and of our hidden treasures on capitol hill for many, many years. of course, back to the capitol. 10 predecessors. many ask how can you be the 11th rchitect of the capitol when we've been here for 224 years or so. it's interesting. someone asked me earlier that architects of the capitol were appointed by the president for lifetime terms. and many of them served 20, 30, or more years in o
ublic-private partnership for the supreme court designed by edward lair booe barnes, that a thurgood marshall judicial building. senate for if senate, the office. and then the roman temple design kass gilbert of the united states supreme xourt. and then of course the thomas building and the john adams and the madison building the e library of commerce, jefferson building widely acclaimed in 1987 has the most america building in and many people still think it is today. power there a capitol...
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Aug 16, 2014
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public-private partnership for the supreme court, designed by edward larrabee barnes, that was the thurgood marshall judiciary building. these are the offices for the senate, and of course the thomas jefferson building and the john adams and madison buildings for the library of congress, the jefferson building, widely acclaimed in 1897 as the most beautiful building in america, and many people still think it is today. you saw there a capitol power plant where we make the steam and chilled water to heat and cool all of the 17 million square feet of space across capitol hill. then bartholdi park recently renovated, and the botanic garden that's been part of our inventory and part of our hidden treasures on capitol hill for many, many years. of course back to the capitol. these are my 10 predecessors in office, and many people ask how can you be the 11th architect of the capitol when we've been in this wonderful capitol city for 224 years or so. it's interesting, and someone asked me earlier, that the first nine architects of the capitol were appoint by the president for lifetime terms. and many of the
public-private partnership for the supreme court, designed by edward larrabee barnes, that was the thurgood marshall judiciary building. these are the offices for the senate, and of course the thomas jefferson building and the john adams and madison buildings for the library of congress, the jefferson building, widely acclaimed in 1897 as the most beautiful building in america, and many people still think it is today. you saw there a capitol power plant where we make the steam and chilled water...
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Aug 4, 2014
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i think that there were a lot of liberals, freedom riders, people working with king, thurgood marshall. i think that was liberalism at its best and it culminated with the passage of the civil rights act and the voting rights act. that was the pinnacle of liberalism. we need equal outcomes and that's where i think the left has gotten into trouble. you don't get equal results. nowhere in u.s. history do you find equal results. nowhere outside the u.s. in history do you get equal results. there are limits to what the government can do beyond providing equal opportunity. then it's up to these groups to take advantage of these opportunities. then where they don't find equal outcomes, assuming automatically that racism or a lack of opportunity is the reason. we should not be so quick to make that assumption. i think we need our government to take a much more modest approach in what it is capable of doing. and this is something blacks -- the black leadership used to understand quite well and i talk about it in the book. and not just king. going back to before king. those before him were sayin
i think that there were a lot of liberals, freedom riders, people working with king, thurgood marshall. i think that was liberalism at its best and it culminated with the passage of the civil rights act and the voting rights act. that was the pinnacle of liberalism. we need equal outcomes and that's where i think the left has gotten into trouble. you don't get equal results. nowhere in u.s. history do you find equal results. nowhere outside the u.s. in history do you get equal results. there...
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Aug 21, 2014
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a biographywritten of thurgood marshall and has received an emmy award and critical praise for his tv documentary work and several awards for his investigative journalism columns. he writes for " the washington "st" " new york times" and washington journal" and has been published many times. he was a senior at national correspondent and news until 2010. at the post he was an editorial writer, in the white house and national correspondent. he covered every major political campaign from 1980 until 2000 as a political columnist. truly a man of the times in which we live. he is familiar with community action and is an honorary sea captain. [applause] so on this important occasion of the 50th anniversary i believe we have no better person to challengeds and also us. as iron sharpens iron, so one good person sharpens another. please join me in welcoming juan williams. -- ron williams. >> thank you very much. thank you. i appreciate that. thank you. that was quite an introduction. a little bit subdued. you could have mentioned i was a top graduate from my high school. so what if i was homesc
a biographywritten of thurgood marshall and has received an emmy award and critical praise for his tv documentary work and several awards for his investigative journalism columns. he writes for " the washington "st" " new york times" and washington journal" and has been published many times. he was a senior at national correspondent and news until 2010. at the post he was an editorial writer, in the white house and national correspondent. he covered every major...
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Aug 30, 2014
08/14
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that is when thurgood marshall became the first african-american to be confirmed to the u.s. supreme court. marshall was confirmed by a vote of 69-11 in the senate. he would go on to serve on the court 24 years. marshall was a civil rights attorney before becoming a supreme court justice. as solicitors general, he argued and won the big supreme court cases ending segregation, a point that president lyndon johnson highlighted on the day he made the historic nomination. >> he has argued 32 cases before the supreme court. he has won 29 of them. that's about an average of 900. , dvd with wireless headphones for the kids! and tons of room for the golf clubs! golf clubs, and strollers. shhh ... i love this part. so what do you think? i think it's everything we wanted. great. discover for yourself why more people find their perfect car at carmax. carmax. start here. [ male announcer ] when you see everyone in america almost every day, you notice a few things. like the fact that you're pretty attached to these. ok, really attached. and that's alright. because we'll text you when your
that is when thurgood marshall became the first african-american to be confirmed to the u.s. supreme court. marshall was confirmed by a vote of 69-11 in the senate. he would go on to serve on the court 24 years. marshall was a civil rights attorney before becoming a supreme court justice. as solicitors general, he argued and won the big supreme court cases ending segregation, a point that president lyndon johnson highlighted on the day he made the historic nomination. >> he has argued 32...
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Aug 4, 2014
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i think that there were a lot of liberals, freedom riders, people working with king, thurgood marshalli think that was liberalism at its best and it culminated with the passage of the civil rights act and the voting rights act. that was the pinnacle of liberalism. we need equal outcomes and that's where i think the left has gotten into trouble. you don't get equal results. nowhere in u.s. history do you find equal results. nowhere outside the u.s. in history do you get equal results. there are limits to what the government can do beyond providing equal opportunity. then it's up to these groups to take advantage of these opportunities. then where they don't find equal outcomes, assuming automatically that racism or a lack of opportunity is the reason. we should not be so quick to make that assumption. i think we need our government to take a much more modest approach in what it is capable of doing. and this is something blacks -- the black leadership used to understand quite well and i talk about it in the book. and not just king. going back to before king. those before him were saying
i think that there were a lot of liberals, freedom riders, people working with king, thurgood marshalli think that was liberalism at its best and it culminated with the passage of the civil rights act and the voting rights act. that was the pinnacle of liberalism. we need equal outcomes and that's where i think the left has gotten into trouble. you don't get equal results. nowhere in u.s. history do you find equal results. nowhere outside the u.s. in history do you get equal results. there are...
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Aug 30, 2014
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features popular american history authors and airs on american history tv at this time. 1967, thurgood marshall was confirmed as the first african-american supreme court justice. profileswn james marshall's early career. lawyers let the naacp's legal office in challenging jim crow laws with a focus on school integration. james explains how their work set to groundwork for the landmark decision of brown versus the board of education. this event was in >> good evening and i'd like to bookstore forman having me here. what i'd like to do this evening the legal discuss strategy that helped bring about ae end to segregation, strategy designed by charles hamilton houston and put in place by charles hamilton and his protege and later his co-worker, thurgood marshall. the late televised theologian cosmetics zealot tammy faye baker remarked after her husband's fall from grace, she said, we are who we are because were. we not only ads betray mature compassion but also speak recognition that the past asalways with us and indeed william faulkner tells us in his 1950
features popular american history authors and airs on american history tv at this time. 1967, thurgood marshall was confirmed as the first african-american supreme court justice. profileswn james marshall's early career. lawyers let the naacp's legal office in challenging jim crow laws with a focus on school integration. james explains how their work set to groundwork for the landmark decision of brown versus the board of education. this event was in >> good evening and i'd like to...
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these are stories of people like patsy mink and thurgood marshall and tito pen today and how -- puente and how they are smart and used their talents to become professionals. we also have books that are a part of the curriculum that are resources. i talked about the 50th anniversary of the freedom summer, so we have resource books that we use like "freedom's children" where young people can read about the stories of civil rights veterans, but from the time when they were 10, 11, 12, 16 years old, retelling their stories for young people today so young people have, again, a road map and a window into history so 10, 11, 12 and 16 they can make a difference which is our overall theme at the freedom schools. and then finally i wanted to end with a book by the late author walter dean meyers. he is one of our favorite authors at the children's defense fund freedom schools, and i had the privilege of being able to model this book, again, at the freedom summer anniversary. and i was with students in sixth, seventh and eighth grade, most of them were around 11 years old. and in two days and just
these are stories of people like patsy mink and thurgood marshall and tito pen today and how -- puente and how they are smart and used their talents to become professionals. we also have books that are a part of the curriculum that are resources. i talked about the 50th anniversary of the freedom summer, so we have resource books that we use like "freedom's children" where young people can read about the stories of civil rights veterans, but from the time when they were 10, 11, 12, 16...