however, thurgood marshall called peremptory challenges the greatest embarrassment in our criminal justicesystem. he said that, in a decision from the u.s. supreme court called batson versus kentucky, i talk about this in the book, the court said, when a peremptory challenge is questioned, the person who did the challenge has to give a race neutral vaccination for removing the juror. then it is up to the judge to determine if that expedition is possible. more than 30 years after@, trial judges continue to accept superficial and in my opinion ridiculous race neutral excuses, usually from prosecutors for the peremptory challenges. thurgood marshall once again said, any prosecutor could easily insert facially neutral reasons for striking a juror and trial courts are ill- equipped to second-guess those reasons. >> you talk in a book about how racism used to be the elephant in the room. can you give us an example of that from your own life and from what you have seen? >> when i was on the bench, this has gone on until recently, race was always there, nobody talk about it. i write in the book ab

they chose thurgood marshall and clark's father was on the supreme court. reagan in 1981, reagan didn't do everything right by a very long shot, but he did appoint the very first woman to the supreme court. here we have a case where joe biden has committed himself to putting the first african-american woman on the supreme court. it should have happened a long, long time ago. >> elliott, i think we know what doc holiday meant when he put up america. any of these women will be the human embodiment of critical race theory and they're going to go after issues directly related to race. the argument against them will be highly racialized by republicans, because by love of america, they mean the uncritical of america's history when it comes to race, and particularly when it comes to black people. i wonder what you make of this opportunity that biden has and what he might do with it and if you have any tea leaves of who he might choose from this incredible list of judges. >> first let's dispense with the qualifications argument. all of the women that are being band

thurgood marshall was an outstanding jurist, and an hbcu graduate. he did just fine, so i think it is fine for us to diversify the court. not just as relates to gender, but as it relates to color as well, and as it relates to backgrounds and experiences. and it would help to have somebody from the south. clarence thomas was born in the south. he has never identified with the south. she is a woman raised in the south, still does service in the south. she would bring a unique perspective to the supreme court if for no other reason than to let people know there are a lot of southerners who are african-american and who are real southerners. >> biden has definitely heard your call for a black woman to be on the supreme court, but one of the things he actually said shortly after justice ruth bader ginsburg died was that if he were to be elected president and he had to go through a nomination process, he would want the input of democrats and republican senators who are going to obviously oversee this confirmation process. because he doesn't want it to becom

because you just mentioned, you know, thurgood marshall.ights movement that was one key part that struck down -- >> apartheid. >> apartheid in the u.s. now, the court had been for most of its life, all of its life, essentially an apartheid court, a reactionary institution that upheld quite supremacy at almost every turn. then it has this period where it does the opposite. >> brief. >> a brief period. what are we in now? >> well, i think now we're in something quite reactionary. you know, this is the most conservative court that we could i think imagine in the last, you know, 50 or 60 years. there's no question about it. and there are lots of elements of the way in which this court operates that should concern us and concerns me as a lawyer, and so it's not just the outcome of the cases, but it's also the process. and if you actually believe in the legal process, which i do. i'm kind of nerdy about the stuff. then you are alarmed about the conduct of the court with the shadow docket. you are alarmed about not just that section 2 of the votin

really the first thing i wrote for the new yorker which was about thurgood marshall, barack obama andthe parameters of hope and i talked about how he in his political rhetoric constantly personifies cynicism and anytime people disagreed with them, whether they were skeptical , he couldn't call peopleracist but you could call them cynical and that was accessible political language . the problem of that cynicism but to the extent that cynicism proved accurate and the most cynical interpretation of that moment would be there was going to be a gigantic racial backlash as aconsequence of him existing .and that proved to be right. i think the obama defined every kind of cynical expectation of race in america? yes. did obama confirm every cynicalexpectation of race in america ? yes. that's why it became so complicated is because you have to understand what he meant. >> you see some disappointment with his lack of presence on the political scene. do you share that or do you think that's depending onone person too much ? >> i think it's a measure of depending on one person too much because dur

is the most offensive part of it to me. >> kayleigh: absolutely, and icons of the court like thurgood marshallce and gender based test, interestingly just an ancillary point i want to put out on the way out. "the washington post," reporting that the white house knew about this retirement since last fall and that was a closely held secret, but i always surmise that maybe in fact it was the white house that leaked this, we began the hour last week talking about really a terrifying incident in russia and there is a lot of reporting to that end and all of a sudden, might as well been someone in the white house, emily. >> emily: unfortunately i think it's pretty transparent why this was leaked at that time, i feel sorry for justice breyer whose legacy was tainted by the president fumbling and mumbling in putting somebody in this box and reducing them because whoever he nominates i'm sure will be an incredibly accomplished individual, but that will be all lost for that box that he is shoving that person into. >> kayleigh: absolutely, just ahead, is at the end for the football legend? we in tampa bay

that's someone that was filled by thurgood marshall. time magazine last year described her as one of the 100-most influential people in the world. obviously, she's got some cashe. and kamala harris. you say why? the vice president 57 years old, attorney general in this state. it could be a tradeoff, if you will. do you stay vp if you're nominated and say i'm going to stay here, or you say no, i'll take that slot if i get it where i can be impacting the nation for the next 20, 30, 40 year. that's a tough one. it's a name we cannot run away from at this moment. >> surely a lot will be unfolding in the coming weeks. appreciate your time. >>> and nightly continues continues our coverage on the sudden retirement. pete williams will take a look at breyer's legacy as one of the three remaining liberal justices on the bench coming up at 6:30. >>> it's a high-stakes waiting game, after a written response was made to russia over ukraine. nbc's alice barr is tracking the story in washington, d.c. >> reporter: today, dueling demonstrations of milit

before thurgood marshall, it was a given that every justice nominated to the supreme court was goingwe look back at that as saying that is some affirmative action? that is some quota? given that every president prior to thurgood marshall, we knew they were going to select, um, a white male. we didn't look at that as discrimination. the fact is you played that trump chip but the republican savior ronald reagan in 1980 even said that he was running on the fact he was going to appoint a woman to the bench. the fact is now, we have joe biden saying -- and let me just clarify joe biden's record for scott and others. he has actually appointed the most diverse federal judges this country's ever seen, and included in that has been the most african-american women to the bench at this rate. and so, joe biden's record on that -- it needs not even being said. the fact is i mean the front-runners, michelle childs, ketanji brown jackson, leondra kruger, i mean they are the best of the best. you are talking about the sentencing commission. you are talking about an expert in lab laor law. you are ta

they are not among us, they are the most privileged among us. >> thurgood marshall as he said and of course clarence thomas and just five women on the bench, the latest justice amy coney barrett, the remaining justices have opened white men throughout history . this is a look at scotus blog. the headline, biden reiterates promise to nominate a black woman. >> .. biden said he had not chosen menomini plans to do so by the end of february. this is reaction to the on twitter, rebecca says about the president decision, why not dj t donald trump capitalist from the federalist society, party leaders to make their pics, merely control to others people have been talking about the commission out about that looking at both sides, people who support term limits here's what they found about the argument against term limits in the supreme court, opponent of term limits further believe long nonrenewable terms would undermine independence by virtue of the fact that at least some justices would have to consider what they do after the term is expired. their plans for the future might affect their per

du boise, langston hughes, doctor martin luther king, junior, thurgood marshall, catherine johnson, toni morrison, congressmanvi john les at the university with me, and vice president harris. we must preserve and protect hbcu's for the sake of the next generation of changemakers and forne those yet unborn. i look forward to working with my colleagues to ensure they receive the support they need so that they can assure that that happens. additionally in the future, we will hold hearings that showcase the contributions and accomplishments of tribal colleges and universities and minority serving institutions, which also play an important role in the higher education landscape. i want to thank our distinguished witnesses again for being with us today and i , will now yield to the distinguished ranking member doctor murphy for his opening statement. doctor murphy. >> thank you, madam chair and for those excellent remarks. i want to also thank the members of the committee coming to testify before us. historically black colleges are an important and critical landscape to that of higher educatio

there's cheryl eiffel, who would follow in the steps of thurgood marshall. >> and would follow in his footsteps. and i believe earl warren didn't come off the bench. there's been several supreme court justices who didn't come off the bench. there was even one who didn't graduate from high school. i would like to name another couple more people. candace jax son is on the 7th circuit. these are women who are eminently qualified. at a block woman who we want to law school, consist listenly underestimated, consistently viewed as a diversity pick, i know what it's like to have to be twice as mark to work twice as hard to read twice as much to be viewed even half as competent and whatever random white guy is sitting next to me in a tort class. the idea these women will be somehow affirmative action hires, simply because the programs of the search have been widened. i would say they've been widened and not narrowed. you have to remember something like 114 out of 121 supreme court justices have all been white men. it was a prerequisite to be a whiteman. i think it's disingenuous to be a prere

do you know there was a woman that wrote legal papers, that some of those theories thurgood marshall board of education? they did not give her the credit and the limelight she deserved because she was a woman and lgbtq. i tell stories of those people because i have this use of platform, i want people that should be household names to be known. you can get the book at anywhere books are sold on tuesday or you can order right now online at www.alsharptonbooks.com. "righteous troublemakers." every household should have it. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪♪ >>> that does it for me. thanks for watching. i'll see you back here tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. eastern for another live hour of "politics nation." we'll have congresswoman katherine clark, the assistant house democratic leader. that is sunday right here on msnbc. alicia menendez picks up our news coverage now. >>> hi, everyone. we begin this hour with what appears to be a serious escalation in the january 6th investigation. the house select committee investigating the insurrection now wants to talk to former vice president mike pence. they wa

then you have got george bush, who nominated him in the place of thurgood marshall, it was terrible.t was a slap in the face to the black people -- to black people. i want everyone understand -- to understand that joe biden appointing a black woman is right. host: thanks. john referring to an article, the headline saying that jenny thomas a threat to the supreme court. chief justice john roberts released a year and report on the judiciary. the supreme court has its lowest public approval rating in history, in part because it is being viewed as overly politicized. president joe biden recently established a bipartisan commission to consider reforms in the court, and members of congress have introduced legislation that would require justices to adhere to the same types of ethics standards as other justices. roberts' report defiantly want everyone to back off. the judiciary's power to manage its internal affairs insulate courts from it's an expense -- 'n extensive piece and you can read it at new yorker.com. we go to bethesda, maryland and tom on the democrats line. caller: i want to com

and so that was really one of her first big contracts there thurgood marshall. refer to this work as the bible that lay behind his arguments in the landmark desegregation case brown versus board of education in 1954, by the way. he also relied on one of her papers from law school that pauly had written to point out how discrimination was a badge of inferiority for black students. you may remember these studies of dolls, right? that weren't used in that in that case. in 1956 polly was hired by the firm paul weiss. well there she also published her family's history proud shoes highlighting the role of her enslaved ancestors and she wrote poetry as well. she met irene barlow at the firm arlene arlene. sorry became her romantic partner until barlow died in 1976. so i wanted to ask if you had any reactions to her poem that you had for today. hope is a song in a weary throat did anything come up for you when you read that poem anything that polly was talking about and she wrote that a little bit later. she went around 1970 or so, but i wondered if anyone wanted to com

justices thurgood marshall and justice clarence thomas. five black women are said to be among the possible contenders. a name that continues to come up as lead contender is ketanji brown jackson, who currently sits on the court of appeals in washington d. c. she's a harvard law school grad who once worked as a public defender and also clerked for justice breyer. jackson was confirmed to the appeals court in june by a 54 to 44 vote. all members of the democratic voted for her, including senators kyrsten sinema and senator joe manchin. republicans susan collins, lisa murkowski and lindsey graham also joined them. susan collins today weighed in on breyer's retirement. >> there is no need for any rush. we can take our time, have hearings, go through the process, which is a very important one. it is a lifetime import appointment after all. >> funny, she didn't say any of that when it was amy coney barrett. and senator lindsey graham, still on that committee, issued a statement that read in part, quote, "if all democrats hang together -- which i

there was a period when for roughly 180 years until johnson appointed thurgood marshall to the court,ouldn't think of a woman. this idea in the past we judge people on merits and race wasn't part of it and now suddenly there are identity politics that dictate what positions people are in. we've always had identity politics in this country. that's actually been a really important center piece of how a lot of politics have worked. it's just in the past, those identities that we were okay with were white and male and that shift is what so many people are uncomfortable with. >> what they're saying when they say that are qualifications are to be white and male. >> those are the most important qualifications and that's the only way to ensure that you will have competency. we see someone like shapiro writing we were basically guaranteed to get a lesser black woman as a candidate and what that tells me is he does not think there is a black woman candidate out there who is capable of doing the job. so it's about -- it is for all that these people are complaining about, identity politics for ra

before thurgood marshall, it was a given that every justice nominated to the supreme court was goinghite male. do we look back at that asization that -- that is some affirmative action. the fact is you played that trump clip, but the republican savior ronald reagan said he was going to appoint a woman to the bench. now we have joe biden saying -- let me just clarify joe biden's record for scott and others. he's actually appointed the most diverse federal judges this country has ever seen, included in that has been the most african-american women to the bench at this rate. so joe biden's record on that, it needs not even being said. the fact is, the front-runners, michelle childs, ketanji brown jackson, leondra kruger, i mean, they are the best of the best. you're talking about the sentencing commission, an expert in labor law, you're talking about a chief justice or a justice in the california supreme court and clerk for justice stephens. these black women have it all. so i don't want to get into games about discrimination or quotas or affirmative action because it's black women. the

of all-white male justices through almost 200 years of the country's history not broken until thurgood marshal you know, the fuss about affirmative action and so on just strikes me as a makeway. what would it mean? president biden has told us it's a way of having the court look more like america and it's a way of putting on the court a highly qualified person who just doesn't happen to be a white male. i thought senator collins' remark yesterday i guess it was that this is different from what happened with ronald reagan as a candidate said he would put the first woman on the court. this is different. it's not different at all. it's an effort to expand the pool of qualified people who can be supreme court justices. >> and there in particular was a perspective, academic from georgetown law center, who wrote very disparagingly about the idea of a black woman and being a lesser person of qualifications, lesser qualifications than some of the black, white men on the court. looking at the qualifications of women even being considered as laughable. >> you know, sonia sotomayor had to go through this

board of education, marylanders are proud of thurgood marshall, a native son of maryland, the role that he played in arguing that case before the supreme court. and by our congress with historic action in 1964 to pass the civil rights act, in 1965 the voting rights act, 1968, the fair housing act. today we are now seeing a renewed effort for jim-crow type laws aimed at disenfranchising targeting voters. my colleagues have talked about it and i'm not going to repeat it because time is running short. aimed at minorities to prevent them from being able to cast their votes. marginal groups are targeted because those who are enacting these laws think that it will help them politically. why now? the answer is pretty simple. the 2020 elections, an election where more people voted than ever before, judged to be the most secure election in american history. but because donald trump lost, for the first time in the history of this nation, we had the loser claim that the election was stolen in order to rationalize his loss. that big lie is what motivated legislatures to pass laws to make it more di

advocate against the death penalty i think on the court that we have had since marshall, since thurgood marshall he has been a strong pro-choice advocate. he has been a strong environmental advocate. people are complicated. breyer has a comforted legacy. look, would take nine stephen breyers over one gorsuch. you see the most firebreathing leftie? no. i don't think biden is going to replace m with the most firebreathing leftie i can think of, either. it wasn't the obama strategy, quite frankly. i don't anticipate biden's nominee being attacked from the left too much, but i don't anticipate biden's nominee being as left as you could go. amy: finally, your headline "supreme court versus the earth." we ia bad situation right now. unfettered 28, the supreme court will hear a major case where it will try to limithe epa's ability to regulate carbon emissions, greenhouse gases from power plants. that is amazing to me because clean air is in the name of the law. but if you understand where conservatives are coming from, they have a generations long ideological crusade against the administrative state wh

we haven't had a civil rights lawyer on the board since thurgood marshal. >> professor, if you had the ear of the president, if you were advising him on this pick of the aforementioned, who would melissa murray endorse? >> all of these women are fantastic. i know many of them personally and i can't choose. this is an abundance of riches and it's absolutely wonderful the president has this array of talent from which to choose. >> if you get a call from the white house, let us know, please. thank you. >> you're not getting rid of me that quickly, craig. >> i hope not. but if we did, we would take that. >> i want to bring in congressman clyburn, democrat from south carolina, house majority whip. you've been close to the president for a very long time. you've made it known that you think it should be judge childs. have you had any conversations with the white house recently or with the president perhaps about judge childs? >> i have not had conversations with the president recently about judge childs we spoke about her some time ago. i sent a letter to him 13 months ago and of course every

justice o'connor, when she was talking about the impacts that justice thurgood marshall had on her, saidkinds of stories he would tell based on his lived experiences as a black man. based on his lived experience representing black people during the civil rights movement really, really shaped how she viewed so many cases. and shaped the ways in which they discussed cases during their deliberations. and i think shaped the outcomes, shaped the majority, helped shape the majority of opinion. so having a diversity of perspectives, having a diversity of backgrounds, having a diversity of work experiences is really, really critical to having a strong supreme court. and adding a black woman's voice to the supreme court is really, really important for all of those reasons. >> it seems obvious, that you would want the highest court in the land to be reflective of the population. and so representation in that high realm matters. but i'm curious what you make of the response from some folks out there who claim that a person's background, whether ethnicity, gender, sex, et cetera, they say it shouldn

. >> reporter: in 1967 thurgood marshall was confirmed as the first black supreme court justice.until '67 it was illegal for interracial marriages. >> 1967 was the year that "guess who's coming to dinner" came out. you know, so you have to think that so many choices that he made as an actor, as a director even were all done through the lens of intentionality. i would imagine he carried a lot on his back and always had this self-awareness that he was carrying an entire culture. >> reporter: he was born in miami and raised in the bahamas. part of the racial majority with curiosity and creativity, he transcended the space between. his legacy and impact are indelible. where there was no path, mr. poitier forged one. never neglecting his commitment to his community or his lifelong role as a freedom fighter. james? >> thanks, zachary. yes, some people really are sent to change the world, aren't they? for more on his lasting legacy we're joined by abc news contributor mike muse. good morning, mike. >> reporter: good morning, everyone. how are you today? >> great. well, look, tributes ha

from its inception in 1789 until 1967 when thurgood marshal, the first black supreme court justice joined bench, the entirety of the court was made up of white men. so it's not really the idea of taking identity into account when making an appointment that some republicans are criticizing. it's the identity itself. it's that it's going to be a black woman. take a look here at some of the names being floated to replace breyer. these are highly qualified judges. let's consider judge ketanji brown jackson, sits on the court of appeals and widely considered to be one of the front runners for that vacancy. you know who also served on the d.c. court of appeals before his appointment to supreme court as a justice, brett kavanaugh. we've got a lot to discuss so let's get started and bring in my saturday night panel. tim is the cofounder of she will rise, an initiative aimed at putting a black woman on the supreme court. joseph stern is a staff writer for slate, and margaret cho is a comedian and host of the podcast. you can see her perform at the irvine improv on february 11 and 12th. it's great

my whole life pattern would've been different, but for thurgood marshall when bush nominated clarence- in spite of people laughing at me she's not qualified, who did you think she is, blah blah i had a lot of graffiti, even a state legislator for ten years. i had served in office before. i was just disqualified as any of the mill candidates who are running, but they would assume to have all together, because they were white and male, and i had money and i don't have any of that. we have to make our democracy live up to his promise, that's where this nomination is going to help you. >> i read somewhere, when you ran, you were so angry about allen davis supporting the clarence thomas nomination, that that was the year of the woman i like to say, to you, that perhaps, this is going to be the year of the woman of color. thank you for your time. >> coming up, virginia's governor set up a tip line for parents to rat on teachers who cover divisive topics, but the tips flooding in may not be when he expected will be back after this break. bac bac after this keep your number. visit your local

and thurgood marshall. that even the vice president harris. we must observe and protect hbcu for the next generation changemakers. so i look forward to working with my colleagues to ensure they receive the support that they need to make sure that happens. and we will hold hearings that showcase the contribution and accomplishments of the colleges and universities and those institutions which played an important role in the higher education landscape. with our distinguished witnesses thank you for being with us today. i now yield to the distinguished ranking member , doctor murphy for his opening statement. >> thank you madame chairman for those excellent remarks also to members of the committee to testify beforei us. historically black colleges are a critical landscape and then to become a vital force and the workforce. and then to overcome immeasurable challengesal and hardships today over 100 hbcu plays a vital role and is pivotal in the education with the nation's future leaders. and many times met the chancellor a true gem in the world of

the fact is 55 years after thurgood marshall was put on the court, 31 years after clarence thomas, 13e country can say equal justice applies to everybody. it's an extraordinary move by the president. i welcome this appointment. i'll fight with everything i have to make sure this extraordinary woman gets confirmed. >> chris christie, i was surprised to see this was senator collins' first talking point. i was surprised by the polling numbers. is this an effective point of criticism from republicans? >> look, i'm going to say the same thing i said when donald trump was nominating justices. elections have consequences. the president of the united states has the right to pick whoever he wants for that seat and nominate them. then they have to face the scrutiny of the united states senate. it wouldn't have been the way i would have approached it by preannouncing something like that, but joe biden won the election. he gets to make the choice. every 100 senators has the right to scrutinize this person's background, experience and decide whether or not they deserve lifetime tenure. >> donna, w

bush naming him to replace thurgood marshall. why are emotions running so high in this media debate when everybody knows it's virtually certain that a 51-50 with kamala harris breaking the tie in the senate will confirm whoever priden nominates? and just -- president biden nominates? and just as the democrats lost with the battles over merrick garland and amy coney barrett and it doesn't change the 6-3 balance of the court? >> ah, howie, one of the reasons my over 30 years as a talk show host the phones ring when you say something that's really divisive is because people love the fight. howard: ding ding. >> and whether it's a democrat or republican, they love the fight. the media cothat, and -- do that, and everybody profits off it whether monetarily or politically. we see that now more than ever, and i would have to say that a it's sad, because i do agree with something justice breyer said in his remarks after his announcement of retirement, was that this constitution for our founding forefathers, this belief, that's what reall

the court, one of the things that she understood about society, she learned because justice thurgood marshall was on the bench with her for all of those years. they formed a close relationship and she learned about experiences in this country that she could not know as someone who was white. and the very fact that we inform ourselves about experiences, particularly for blacks, latinos, native americans, for all of our residents, is by having relationships with one another, is one of the things that we need considered when we talk about what it means to have a quality education and a fair admissions process. so i worry about what it indicates that they've done. >> maya wiley and pete williams, thank you so much for being with me this morning. >>> right now, stewart roads, the founder of the far-right militia group the oathkeepers is facing a federal judge in a texas courtroom. earlier this month, roads and ten others were charged with seditious conspiracy related to the january 6th attack on the capitol. joining me now is nbc news correspondent, ken dilanian. ken, what's expected to happen tod

don't think there has been anybody that has represented people that were accused of crimes since thurgood marshall and that's a long time ago. he was the first african american justice on the supreme court. so the other leading contender is leondra kruger. and she is a justice on the california supreme court. like ketanji brown jackson, she has stellar legal credentials. interestingly, she was hired by the republican solicitor general of the united states to be an assistant solicitor general. this is prior to her becoming a justice. and on the state supreme court. and she then went on to serve six more years after that in the obama administration, becoming the deputy solicitor general and arguing 12 cases. so at the age of 38, she was plucked by jerry brown on to the state supreme court of california, where she has earned a lot of acclaim and has a record that is very kind of moderately liberal cautious record. >> and, nina, the -- if you look at the two leading candidates, judge jackson's 51, judge kruger is 45, how much is age going to play into this selection process, and would it play in enoug

justice o'connor all said the way they thought about the law fundamentally changed when they heard thurgood marshallo to have someone at the conference table to say wait, wait, wait. this is my experience as a black woman, that is a non-trivial influencing factor. ii think in terms of the country itself, there is every single reason to believe that the legitimacy of the court really does rise and fall in having a court that isn't comprised only of white men. so i think in those ways this sounds symbolic. it is not just symbolic. it does matter. >> that is a really good point. representation matters. and this would be, if it -- if the black woman that joe biden picks gets confirmed and every indication that she will, it would mean that there are four women on the -- is it four? four women on the court. the most women ever on the supreme court. thanks so much. i don't know about you guys, but i watched that video of the supreme court where they're taking their video. i still wonder what the photographer said to make them all laugh so hard. i don't know about you, but i am curious. maybe one day we'll