he made these very warm sort of encomiums to thurgood marshall. i mean it was it was all kind of boiler plate sort of pablum. he you know said what had to be said, i think his relationship is very antagonistic to marshal. he was quite critical of marshall during the 1980s. and you know, i in many ways i think seasons himself as kind of dethroning that jurisprudence and i think doubly so given the stature of thurgood marshall particularly in the african-american community. so, you know, i think it's a it's a pretty antagonistic relationship. despite some positive things. he said about marshall at the time of his confirmation. i mean the marshall sort of the the embodiment of civil rights liberalism. so it makes sense that. yeah. absolutely thomas's and then to and let me, you know, just say on that, you know, thomas is critique of that kind of civil rights liberalism. it's you know with it's what we call the rights revolution and it's a it's a threefold critique, you know, it's first and foremost aside from the kind of civil rights aspect. it's a cr

susan: you described thurgood marshall and ruth bader ginsburg, both were activists. at their nominations be considered today given the way the process works? prof. barton: marshall would be a lot harder. he did not go tlr harvard. he went -- he did not go to yale or harvard. he is a self-described hellraiser before he turned the corner and became a more serious person. he would have had a hard time. he does not meet the educational background and he would have been more controversial. ruth bader ginsburg would be controversial. they took stands along the way before they got there. the current route to the court really encourages keeping your head down and working hard. just like a silent version of jumping through all of these ever narrowing hoops. and again i do not think that is , helpful. susan: you referenced how presidents use to appoint politicians. we pulled these numbers from your book. because they are quite telling. before 1980, 14 u.s. senators, 17 house members, five continental congress members, one president, or two in your telling, 10 governors, five ma

in aa so given the statute of thurgood marshall. particularly in the african-american community. i think it is a pretty antagonistic relationship.me despite some positive things he is said about marshall the time of his confirmation request marshall is the embodiment of silverlight liberalism. >> absolutely. >> let me just say on that, thomas critique of the civil rights liberalism skull the rights revolution. it is a threefold critique. first and foremost, aside from the civil rights aspect it is a critique of the reform of the transformation of criminal justice law. the rights of prisoners, the rights of suspects is hostile to that. it is a critique of the sexual rights revolution the sexual emancipation and all of that part of the jurisprudence of the court, birth control, abortion and so on and so forth. and lastly it's the economic component which he traces back to fdr. it is not just marshall is a civil rights jurist, icon and lawyer. it is what marshall represents in the whole triad of the rights revolution. >> here is a question on this relates to the thomases economic vie

and i think doubly so given the statue of thurgood marshall, particularly in the african-american communitythink it's a pretty antagonistic relationship, despite some positive things he said about marshall at the time of his confirmation. >> marshall is sort of the embodiment of civil rights liberalism so it makes sense. >> absolutely. >> and then -- >> let me say on k that. promises a critique of civil rights liberalism, it's what we call the rights revolution and it's a threefold critique. it's first and foremost aside from the civil rights aspect it's a critique of the reform of the transformation of criminal justice law which the rights of prisoners, the rights r of suspects, he's hostile to that. it's a critique of the sexual rights revolution, the sexual emancipation and all that part of the jurisprudence of the war in court on birth control and abortion and so on and so forth. and then lastly itsy it's e economic component of the rights revolution which he traces back to fdr. it's not just marshall as a kind off civil rights jurist and icon and lawyer. it's what mars represents the w

struck that one stop she bergeron gave her steele in front of thurgood marshall and leon ran son who was on the dina powered law school. it was given as a result a full tuition scholarship to howard. she was the only girl, the only woman in her class of all black men all. because howard is a black university. and she found herself laptop behind her back, she was not called in class as much as the other guys, as the other people. and at the first instance she was aware of what she came to call jane crow. it was the combination of sexual discrimination and gender discrimination and racial discrimination. her final of school paper was about how the equal protection argument of the constitution could prevail over plus c versus ferguson, the separate but equal decision of the 19th century. her classmates laughed at her, but she prevailed and wrote that thesis. her professors better $25 that, no $10 that it wouldn't be, that plus he wouldn't be a return for the next 25 years. in fact, it was overturned by thurgood marshall in the well-known brown decision which she won in part by reading h

that one stop she was she gave her spiel in front of thurgood marshall and leon ransom. who was then the dean of howard law school and was given as a result a full tuition scholarship to howard. she was the only girl on only woman in her class of all black men. how it is a black university. and she found herself. laughed at behind her back. she was not called in class as much of the other guys. as the other people and she was at the first the first instance aware of what she came to call jane crow. it was the combination of sexual discrimination gender discrimination and racial discrimination. it didn't it didn't or her final law school paper was about how the equal protection argument of the constitution could prevail over plessy versus ferguson the separate but equal decision of the 19th century. her classmates laughed at her but she prevailed and wrote that thesis her professor spotters with robinson bet her $25 that that no $10 that it wouldn't be that plus he wouldn't be overturned for the next 25 years. in fact, it was overturned by thurgood marshall in the well-kn

to write this book about claude that who was as important, the most insightful leaders of the thurgood marshallyouth and they were not exalted because she was gay and a woman. was i wanted to write about them because i was them. i didn't fit the prototype of what a, quote, civil rights leader was supposed to fit. out of the north, out of the hood, didn't go to ivy league school. that should not qualify you to be a freedom fighter, it is whether you're committed, disciplined, whether you fight for the people. i know plenty of people that ivy league trains, got the right pedigree and right lineage and don't do anything. >> guest: that was part of what, you referred to kimberly crenshaw and the idea of intersection hourly and one of the things i appreciate it especially in this era we are in is you call out pieces of the intersection allergies, and sexism, all of these things that do exist that almost create division within the race that makes it complicated to advance the work as well. >> people play in those divisions to politically break us down so they can make us uncomfortable with each other

you weren't as impressed with thurgood marshall as others, right? there was something about the spiritual that'shi always called you to this work but also to this faith. >> when i was very young even before my father left, i would always look at those in ministry harp social activists. i loved adam clayton powell. and i'm, like, 9, so -- 10 years old. but i wasn't attracted to the side of preachers that were doing the pastoring big churches. i was attract to the activist side. 10, is 1 years old i was reading about cecil williams out there in san francisco, and these are the kinds of preachers when i grew up, i wanted to be like that. and jesse jackson ended up a mentor of mine. when i was 12, my mother brought me to him. he was like a father figure, a big brother figure because as you grow older, the gap of 13 years is different than a father and a son. so i knew what i wanted to be, and i never changed that. i never let nobody talk me out of it. i remember some of the guys that was going with me -- well, how you going to make a living doing civil

and you know the heroes among the many of the civil rights movement were the lawyers thurgood marshall charles hamilton houston constance baker motley and you know, they were the ones who took the passion from the streets and translated it into the courtrooms of our country. and did the noble work of reminding folks of the thing that we know they must constantly be reminded of which is that great point that we are all equal and should be treated that way and so i one of my heroes was thurgood marshall as another example of a great howard graduate and i was just in and so i was just yeah we could keep going and so for all of those reasons i want i dreamed of going to howard i wanted to go to howard and i did go to howard and so and i thankfully i did. you and and gw is also a great school. well more to the point of howard because you do write with such reverence for for the university and you write at howard. you would come as you were and leave as the person you aspired to be. that's right. there were no false choices. weren't just told we had the capacity to be great. we were challeng

the rats of nim it was through the library that i learned for the first time about the work of thurgood marshall and ruth bader ginsburg. and it was then in there some 25 years ago. that i resolved to become a lawyer just like them and change the stories our country chose to tell. in its courtrooms and its laws in its books neither that day nor that conviction has left me. for the treasures of the books that i discovered are etched into my being. my heart still mourns little ann and old dan from where the wet red. fern grows still delights in the silliness the wayside school. still steals itself with the feminism of a wrinkle in time. but most of all the honor of having found books that reflected me at a time when i needed them gave me a sense that perhaps despite all messaging. i was not singularly unwanted that perhaps i was just as worthy as the next child. to this day whenever i feel scared and lost there are a few things more comforting than the sight and smell of books. and because you are here at a book festival at 9 am on a saturday. i suspect you can relate. so now that you know a littl

buildings, the capital visitor center, the library of congress, the united states supreme court, the thurgood marshall judiciary building, and all of the outdoor sculptures. such as the one that is preserved today. senator blunt talks about mr. plantain's work and his education at the naval academy. it is my honor to present to you we're in latin architecture of the capital. [applause] [applause] [applause] >> thank you for that warm welcome. good morning, and thank you for being here. i'm honored to join senator blunt, miss, kimball mr. white, and members of the united states capitol historical society in celebrating the 200th anniversary of president grant's birth, and the 100th anniversary of this memorial. now i am not going to talk about president grant, and i do agree that he is one of the greatest presidents and our union, and i will also acknowledge it as well that i firmly believe that he could save the union. and we would not have a capital complex like we have today if it wasn't for president grant. not only was he a crazy leader in the military, he was a great leader for our nation. i am t

he was always an admirer and thurgood marshall defended him and said the constitution is colorblind and we wouldn't have had 70 years which is why we need affirmative action. i don't think that he can say therefore we won't rule out past discrimination but it's the comment about colorblind and if it weren't such a powerful statement, people would be arguing about the concept of inequality and does it allow for racial considerations like affirmative action. >> okay. we have -- are there any parallels to be drawn? >> there are a lot of parallels and ruth bader ginsburg cited the influence when she embraced the role of the dissenter and started praising the british dissent from the past and we talk frequently about harlan and mentioned benjamin curtis also a massachusetts justice who objected to dread scott. but i think that harlan offers hope to some who are fans of ruth bader ginsburg because he showed how in one year they become the majority in another era and how those very documents and records that are preserved can become part of the decision-making process in the next generation. t

knew you wanted to be a preacher from early on and the idea that you are not as impressed with thurgood marshallut something always called you to this work but also to the space. >> when i was very young i would always want look at the ministry of social activism. i'm 18 years old and already a teacher of god and christ that's i was not attracted to the kind of preachers that i was on the activist side. so we were out there in san francisco and jesse jackson into that that is a mentor of mine he was 25 or 26 said he was like a father figure because as you grow older that 13 year gap is different between father and son i knew i wanted to be in a never changege that. why do you want to make a living doing civil-rights ministry? i don't know that this is what i believe as an excellent lawyer i write about that i am sure he never thought he thought he would become the face of the civil rights friendship i think if you decide with your life there is no way anybody could have told mee how is anybody going to tell me that i would be on a syndicated radio w show? msnbc was not even in existence shows th

admirer putting in the heart of the civil rights movement in the middle of the 20th century but thurgood marshallended to say it is colorblind if we would've listened to and i have had 70 years it's not colorblind which is why we needed affirmative action. >> when they say the constitution is colorblind so therefore we will not allow any race-based remedies for past discrimination. the challenge for affirmative action is obvious. but if the constitution was not this powerful statement they wouldn't be arguing just about their concept of the quality were racial considerations like affirmative-action. host: is there any record from ruth bader ginsburg quick. >> there are a lot of parallels and ruth bader ginsburg decided on influence and was very late in life and she embraced the role and she started praising the dissent from the past and thought about harlan and mentioned benjamin curtis and also dred scott that i think that harlan presents a sense of hope for those who are fans of ruth bader ginsburg because to become majority opinions in another era and with those very documents and arguments th

it brings to life some household names including thurgood marshall and james meredith and also some names that may be should be a little more familiar adam for many years in brooklyn. i live next to carter g woodson elementary school. i did not know who he was. i found him in your book and i was thrilled if i said this is what it's all about. we are also joined by clint smith his author of the best-selling book how the word is passed a reckoning with the history of slavery across america clint is a poet in addition to being a writer and those of you have who have read the book know that is lyrical account of a kind of tour that clint took a place where black and white americans interacted sometimes to disastrously now one of clint's unique gifts is a writer is that he can go to a place observe talk to anyone hear things that are both funny and also pauling and then reserve judgment and we're gonna talk a little bit about how he manages to do that in this house. thank you both so much for for being here. we really had a book come out in 2021. it was about a year after the murder of george

criminalization of unpopular legal theories comparing their clients to john adams, ruth bader ginsburg and thurgood marshallng attention here. what eastman did is not simply -- the argument goes unpopular. it may have been an illegal plot. that is what georgia is investigating. was there an undue plot to change election results essentially. tell us more about what you know. >> it's not just georgia investigating john eastman who is a very conservative constitutional law specialist who is advising the trump campaign and he was the chief architect of the plan to block congressional certification of the 2020 election and to put fourth alternative slates of electors in a bid to do that. you'll recall that the justice department executed a search warrant in june and seized eastman's phone and that eastman figured in those public hearings held by the january 6th committee and we all remember that former deputy white house council testifying that he told eastman to get a good criminal lawyer because he was going to need one. eastman's connections from the georgia investigation come from records that show he was in

i want to note that thurgood marshall was on the supreme court said that he was quite clear. he said her injury challenges -- peremptory challenges are awful. they really just promote racism in trials and they should be done away with entirely. people are now looking at this issue. in california, recently, the governor signed a racial justice act which puts the burden on judges to really look at these issues and hold hearings. stop the trial and hold hearings to determine what is going on when let's say, the defense says there is a pattern of using these challenges to get rid of a certain group or class of people. susan: one other big topic to put before you. that is on the prison system. you describe it as mass incarceration mass. the u.s. sentencing project reports there are 2 million people in the prisons and jail which is a 500 percent increase over the last 40 years. 20 of those years, you served as a judge. what is happening in the u.s.? ladoris: i think mass incarceration, which is disproportionately impacted people of color, is the result of mandatory minimum sentenci

a former law clerk to justice thurgood marshall. he has received recognition as a guggenheim fellow and carnegie scholar. he has helped create an entirely new field of study in loss goes. his work in the field systematically explores legal and policy issues concerning the structure of democratic elections and institutions, such as the role of money in politics, the regulation of political parties, the structure of voting systems and the representation of minority interest in democratic institutions and similar issues. she is a professor of law at the chicago-kent college of law. she is the founder and codirector of chicago-kent -- from 2014 through 2016, she served as illinois solicitor general while on leave from the law school and is a former law clerk to justice stephen breyer. her scholarship is focused largely on the supreme court, its relationship to other courts , institutions and its role in our constitutional democracy. she teaches classes, constitutional law, employment law and policy. council with the brennan center for j

anthony brown jackson could be taken through the paces that she taken through when just when thurgood marshall was going for confirmation. it wasn't that hard. and you think about that was during a period of time in this country where it should have been harder for a black person go through and pass muster, but yet was taken through. and at the crux of this is this battle around race and racism and what is racism and nancy racism. and how did you feel about that? i mean, know, karen, i think i initially first felt horrible about joe jackson. i mean, i you know, for her to have to for her for me to see after fact, i was like in something, right? it was sort of happening for her to have to deal with my book or the book of another sort of writer being destroyed and and weaponized and then for her having to sort of gather and who knows what ran through her mind, you know, when when she was you know, just i think, i felt bad for her. and i just want sort of emphasize that because, you know, there's been a lot of around it. but that was a very difficult moment her that senator cruz created. but i th

from my whipped office, you see wb devoid is, mary mcleod bit thune -- mary mcleod bethune and thurgood marshall. there's a statue i have to explain sometimes called "i am a man." some of you may remember that statue grew out of a protest in memphis, tennessee that led to the death of martin luther king jr. i spend all of my time trying to do what i can to make sure that we preserve history. i don't want to whitewash history. i don't want to revise history. i want us to learn from history and do what -- said to us -- if we fail to learn the lessons of history you are bound to repeat them and you cannot learn history lessons by dealing in false representations of history. it has to be what it is. and so what the state of florida has done is kick started something because after they made this move, she is so proud of it, she talks about it all the time, stops me on the floor with an update. with this -- when the state of virginia decided it would not be outdone, the state of virginia voted to take the statue of robert e. lee out of this building and put in barbara john's who at 15 years old, start