rosalind: yes, tiaa.avid: and so, are you surprised that at this late date in our history we only have two? or disappointed? rosalind: yeah, well, i'm more disappointed than i am surprised. i'm not surprised, because i know what it took for me to get here, and i know the trials and tribulations that i've been through. but i would tell you that the disappointing part is that this is just -- is totally ridiculous that there's only two of us. i think, you know, it's going to go beyond mentoring and sponsoring. it's pipeline -- filling the pipeline effectively, getting people of different races in operating roles, and having the confidence that that they can do it, because they absolutely can. david: so, in your career what has been a bigger problem, being a female or being african american, or neither? rosalind: you know, i would have to say being african american. i think that it is still, you know, an issue in our environment to accept people of different races, more so than it is gender. i think i've seen