in this case tim geithner and hank paulson has been deposed. given pretrial depositions. these depositions occurred over the past month. over the legality of the aig bailout. wiping out shareholders including himself. he did take his lawyer deposition sources tell the fox business network of tim geithner in his capacity as new york fed chair during the bailout. he helped engineer the aig bailout along with everything else and have taken the testimony of hank paulson who was then the treasury secretary. what we don't know is what they said about the legality of the aig bailout in what was going on at the time. lifting the secrecy on this, confidentiality on this and expose it to the public. when that happens we will be on the air. ben bernanke clearly delayed by the judge today. liz: they are not forcing him. >charlie: until he leaves offic. these other two have been taken. what is interesting about this case, it is heating up, it is great stuff. i cannot wait for this stuff to come out. this is something people will pore over. it will be very interesting to see how they d

. >> rose: one interesting thing is that tim geithner is now having some speeches and private conversations who said we could not have done what we did, bernanke, paulson, and me without the emergency powers that were given to use by the congress. and then some people in the present debate want to stop that kind of power. >> if you look at dodd frank, i have read all 20 -- however many pages there are, but bernanke used something called section 133, i had a federal reserve chairman i won't tell you which one who told me once he said under 13-3 we can do anything. and the truth is, we had to do almost anything. and hank paulson had something what was called the emergency stabilization fund, it was set up when they changed the price of gold. that is what he used to guarantee money market fund, nobody thought it was designed for that but they did it, you know, and who was going to stop them? i don't know whether the emergency stabilization fund allows that, but you had men there who would act and who had these authorities and to some extent, i believe, i may be wrong on this, that dodd frank c

they need an outside mediator, somebody like hank paulson, or tim geithner, the former treasury secretary. and number works i think that the president should bring everybody into the white house and not let them go until they have a deal. have them avoid talking to the press and the caucus, and lastly, john, an outline for a deal. forget about obamacare, and make a deal on the lines of entitlement reform, and tax reform, spending cuts, and get the shutdown out. and have a debt limit maybe until february or march. those outlines are obvious, the problem is the deep party republics. >> can you care it anything in the past? >> no, this is the worst it has been. it's totally dysfunctional. when i was in congress, we used to disagree on the floor or the house, and but in the end, we would have a deal. and with ronald reagan this never would have happened. >> every time there's a negotiation, every time there's a meeting, then they come out and do a press conference, and they say nasty things about each other. does that matter? >> yeah, that's a problem. what they're doing is not just dealing w

joining me now, nbc news course respondent luke russert and mark patterson, former chief of staff of tim geithner. state of play as of this very moment, 10:06 p.m.? >> the state of play, lawrence, is that more likely than not we will see the official unveiling of this deal that you mention in your opening tomorrow and possibly if everyone agreed in the senate could it leaves john boehner less time to try to bring up a different bill, really trying to jam the u.s. house of representatives. however, from where we stand right now, from conversations i have had, house republicans are already limited this deal because they don't feel it does enough to address the president's health care law. so in theory, the conversations within the house republicans -- is thursday really the drop dead deadline? could we try to negotiate to get to something better that does more to the health care law that wouldn't necessarily leave us having to pass the senate's bill? perhaps that would spur them to act more quickly but you're starting to hear that maybe not thursday. maybe we could go into the weekend to try to get

. >> let me get this straight, you don't believe we would go into default, you believe that tim geithners lying, the president is lying, everybody is wrong, everybody in the country is worrying about this. but you have some superior knowledge, what basis do you get that from -- >> i do have superior knowledge, thank you for recognizing it. >> where do you get it from? >> the united states citizens, who will elect the next president of the united states. >> so you're polling in your district to decide if the united states goes into default -- >> i have an independent judgment, it comes from a long experience of dealing politically and in business and raising a family and being an american citizen, just like the independent judgment of my constituents. >> dana, do you trust in the international economists, he said i don't trust the national economists, they're foreigners. i said do you trust the domestic economists? he said no, i said how? he said i know what i'm talking about, i raised a family. and i do listen to those who understand it. like scientists, i go to a dentist because he know

. >> tim geithner, the top regulator of the banks, when that comes in, you -- they say we would like you to do it, do you it. neil: the goal to me is paying fannie anything, that is what -- >> it is bogus, and absurd. it is so upsetting, the irony, 5 years after the financial crisis, fannie and freddie that helped cause this official crisis, they are getting money from one of the banks, j.p. morgan, which avoided a financial crisis, not saying they are perfect but in terms of risk management they were the best, one of the banks that caused financial crisis citigroup, was a place where jack lew worked. collected $8 million check before he became treasury secretary, and ti and tim geith, asleep at switch as a head of new york fed, he is now. this is perversity. neil: great job, it is amazing. charlie. thank you. >> in the meantime, whether you can fight the government on something like that, that depends on whether you are well heeled client like you know jpmorgan chase or you just accept it and move on. ashbly, what do you think happens now and whether individuals have a chance of get

him thelson had with chairman of the fed, ben bernanke and the president of the new york fed, tim geithner. we also had the chairman of the securities exchange commission present and a couple of other officials. it was at that meeting that hank paulson asked the president for authority to go to congress to request what turned out to be outt $1 trillion in bail money for the banks. to use it for other assets but it was used to inject equity into a lot of trouble institutions. for a goodking thing solid republican president to be confronting is the treasury secretary coming in, saying, we need $700 billion or $800 billion immediately from congress in order to use that money to rescue banks that are failing. this was one occasion where the president made a decision on the spot. , what happensnke if we don't do this? bernanke being a scholar of the great depression and a very wise clearly very was frightened about the state of the financial system and he said, mr. president, we could be looking at circumstances similar to or worse than the great depression. said, thatnt then makes it easy. let

paulsen had with him the chairman of the fed, ben bernanke and the president of the new york fed, tim geithner. we had the chairman of the exchange commission and the president and a couple of other officials. it was at that meeting that hank paulsen asked the president for authority to go to the congress and turned out the be almost a trillion dollars in bailout money for the banks. never gets used to buy up the assets but was used to inject equity into a lot of troubled institutions. and what a shocking thing for a good solid republican president to be confronting. we need $780 billion immediately from the congress in order to use that money to rescue banks that were failing and shore up the whole financial system. and this was one occasion where the president made a decision on the spot. he asked bernanke, what happens if we don't do this. bernanke being a scholar of the great depression and a very wise economic head, was clear ly ver frightened about the state of the financial system and he said, mr. president, we could be looking at circumstances similar to or worse than the great depress

and -- does it act as not a perfect bill as tim geithner would tell you, but as creation of rules and regulations that would be a kind of monitor, so that circumstances that lead to bubbles wouldn't happen or in a sense, removing or restoring some of the kinds of oversight that both was a warning, you know, and intervention. >> as dodd-frank is written now, the answer regrettably is no. dodd-frank, for example, the capital requirement is very important. in fact, i would even go farther than that. i would say that what we're trying to avoid is the corrosive collapse in doubles which have high leverage. for example, the dot com book collapse in huge losses but the economy barely budged. and theh2 ?qpájthe toxic acid, toxic acidt that time which is stocks were held with 401(k)'s, mutual funds, households, no debt to speak of. if there is no debt, you cannot have failure and you cannot -- >> rose: right. >> there are situations in the past where we went through the big bubble, it burst. there's a big loss but no economic -- >> rose: a lot of those companies had core values, i mean they ha

and i think that's why we got robert rubin and we got tim geithner and we got the kinds of people that have. >> clinton democrats? >> the clinton democrats. and i think that's why obama picked, i think, the wrong people to be his financial advisors when he came into office. >> but there are with all due respect very few signs of leadership on a progressive agenda in congress, in washington for workers, for consumers or the environment. the congressional progressive caucus 76 members, they put forth an ambitious "back to work" public investment agenda in education, infrastructure which is in terrible shape in this country, renewable energy. and it was categorically ignored. yet the 90 tea party members in the house can shut down the government? >> well, you know, the desire of the progressive movement is for the democrats to act more like a party, to act more like a movement. and there are enough democrats in both houses of the congress to do that, but they need to be more disciplined. and also we need to realize that change doesn't happen from inside washington. it happens from the gra

there were a bunch people in a room on september 14th, 2008, ben enter knack i.henry paulson, tim geithner were smart people who thought the failure of lehman brothers wouldn't have a particular impact and it froze credit around the world and sent us in to a major recession. i think it's dangerous and james knows much more about economics than i do, but i think it's dangerous to put out there that this is just not of any particular major consequence. we just don't know that it is or isn't. why don't we say that it could be so downtown do that. we don't know if you run in to the middle the street you are going to get hi hit by a car but that doesn't mean you run in the streets you prevents yourself from doing. >> even last time when we flirted with default poor countries saw their borrowing rates go up. i mean, this could have a pretty substantial impact because the world economy is sort of beginning its recovery and weren't they looking at the u.s. to be the engine that really motored things along? >> the u.s. has been a very strong stabilizing engine over the last five years. but, look, t

. >> rose: i remember being at a conference you probably were at too and tim geithner was there and we said we don't have an economic rob. we have a political problem:that is the score of it, yes. five years ago, you had a very big economic and financial problem, i wouldn't say it has all been resolved, there are some very big difficulties but no doubt at all, none, that the u.s. has done a better job of managing that financial crisis, sorting through the problems that were created in the financial system, in the housing system, than any other crisis affected country, particularly in europe, japan doesn't look great despite the economics, the economics have clearly improved on many fronts but the politics for reasons that i don't understand really have gotten worse, the only explanation i have is that the opposition here are creating trouble because they fear actually the economy might do well. >> rose: you understand the conventional wisdom is that you have redistricting and people were in safe seats and had no fear of losing. >> sat the conventional wisdom. >> rose: and worried about

joining me now is steve rattner, former counsel to treasury secretary to tim geithner with michael bloombergll right, treasury has already been taking what's called extraordinary measures, right? >> correct. >> for months. is there anything they can do if we -- i mean, if we go over on wednesday, if you're sitting there as jack lew and the civil servants who have to run this payment system, what do you do? i mean, what do you do on thursday morning if a debt ceiling hasn't been reached? >> i think the first thing to know is wednesday's a very important day. it's the last day that they can borrow using these so-called extraordinary measures, but it's not the day that we actually default. treasury will have about $30 billion of cash on hand. more cash comes in every day. as you point out, cash goes out every day. and probably somewhere between october 23rd and november 1st is when we literally won't have the money to pay the next day's bills. >> part of what's complicated here, right, is that these payments, the money coming in and the money going out is lumpy. you might get a whole big bunch

and that's what essentially hank and ben bernanke and tim geithner did and they had the ability to doe came, the job would get done as long as you had strong, decisive clear thinking people in positions of power that had the and the will to do whatever -- >> do you have a view, by the way on the jamie dimon jpmorgan settlement? does that seem fair to you given the numbers? >> i don't know. >> you're a personal shareholder. >> yeah. they've got -- you know, the regulators have a huge, huge club. i mean, no financial institution, you know, can take any kind of criminal indictment or thing of the sort. you're dealing from a point of weakness if the regulator says i want "x," you probably write a check for "x." >> coming back to t.a.r.p. for a moment, if you could have called him again. five years later, everything's hindsight with 20/20 vision, is there anything you would have said to him differently? >> i don't think so. >> i've asked him this question. >> you've got this fog of war thing going on where information is falling and some of it falls. you're getting bombarded by it and all

prior to this he was counselor to secretary tim geithner.rved as the point person on manufacturing policy, housing, economic assistance for veterans, played a key role in jobs act and small business tax credit. during his eight years in the clinton white house helped negotiate the 1993 and 1997 deficit reduction acts an championed the children's health insurance program, earned income credit and direct student loan program. between the clinton and obama administrations he worked at the brookings institution, center for american progress and the council on foreign relations working on a range of economics and education issues. he is the co-author of a book on girls education and pro growth progressive and economic strategy for shared prosperity. he graduated from the university of minnesota and yale law school. he is a native of ann arbor, michigan, and will rejoin his family in california at the end of the year. when he finishes the remarks we will move over hear for q&a. thank you very much. gene. >> well, thank you very much for having us