>> at the time i was appointed, tim mcveigh was being held in a federal prison in oklahoma, in el renoma. i went over and stuck out my hand. i said, "mr. mcveigh, my name is stephen jones. i'm a lawyer from enid, oklahoma. i've been appointed by the federal court to represent you." shook his hand. and as i did, he said, "well, i heard you were coming." i can only tell you about my conversation with tim mcveigh now because he clearly waived the attorney-client privilege and the courts have so held. on that morning i listened to him virtually all day. he told me the very first meeting, and he said, "i decided to do this." he told me why he chose the murrah building, told me how he assembled the bomb, where he got the parts, how he drove it to oklahoma city and parked on way down at blackwell, oklahoma, came down the next morning. how he lit it when the bomb -- when the truck was paused briefly in front of the regency towers, that he lit one of the fuses there and then lit another fuse and closed the door and walked away. he took 100% of the blame. >> holy cow. >> tim mcveigh considered h

may have been two people like tim mcveigh and one of his associates in oak city. they need a lucky break. state trooper who saw that broken license plate, but we've got to get to the bottom of it. we will and whoever's responsible will be tried and convicted and i think mercifully, hopefully, if they are responsible for this horrific act, will be executed d as we did tim mcveigh. >> do you think as clint just sukted, this may well will a timothy mcveigh type? >> it's really hard to say. i'm one who thinks and this is not a cynical statement, but i think most people act and react with a motive. and this could be a situation where someone's trying to get even with the boston marathon. real simple motive. it could be someone who is mad at boston, mad at the police department, mad at runners. who knows. but that's what investigators do. they go through the international connection potentially, the domestic potential, obviously in the case of tim mcveigh, it was to get even for the branch di individual yan compound, the attack there by atf, fbi, some years before to ge

a date that was of significance to people like tim mcveigh.tory, do you have any sense at this point usually would someone have taken credit? i can't recall exactly every incident like this -- and oftentimes it's erroneous even when that is claimed? >> the only thing we have so far is a group that has said it was not them. it is a pakistani group that said it was not responsible. >> they are aligned with the taliban. >> uh-huh. but this wasn't them. so i can't remember a time when a group would come -- it was the pakistani taliban. they denied participate according to the ap. >> stephanie: obviously as you were saying voluminous tips. this was yesterday. >> to our left, [ inaudible ] two huge bombs, smoke coming out of buildings, and [ inaudible ] and the whole thing stopped and they sent us away. >> a huge explosion while we were having lunch. and everybody ran to the doors and windows. >> i worked in the prudential building, and i don't know what is going on. >> stephanie: jacki we were saying it's not just the social media universe but live

. >> and they miranda mirandaized tim mcveigh but they didn't have as much and he didn't present as aeign threat. i've worked as around the world as a scholar and lawyer, there is a question of international connection and it's appropriate for them to be asking these questions, not to mention that they'll probably race the issue on constitutional ground when it comes to trial. >> john: could the interrogation be used in court against tsarnaev in light of that or they're certain there is no chance that any judge would though down under any circumstances. >> if the judge chooses to exclude the evidence, you couldn't use evidence if the judge declares it inadmissible. you could still use all the evidence that has been brought to bear in identifying him locating him and bringing him to the point today. that would bring multiple life sentences. >> cenk: it seems like an air tight case. senator graham degrees that tsarnaev should be tried in a federal court but also designated and integrated as an enemy combatant. how is that supposed to work? could an i. citizen be an enemy combatant in th

read enough, but i don't think we're going to get a claim of responsibility if we had not caught tim mcveighnk: we never got clarity on the so-called second bomber at oklahoma city. >> eventually, you could interrogate tim mcveigh and get to the bottom of it. cenk: oh, right we killed him. >> everybody said there was a second bomber at oklahoma city and then the authorities were like we never caught that guy so no, there wasn't. maybe that's there, there was not. then you have the lunatics, like alex jones immediately claiming it's a false flag investigation. i want to show you a match up here a11 it's going to show the different people in the media and among the politicians talking about who it might be. >> a senior u.s. official tells us no foreign connection or link to al-qaeda has been found in this attack, at least not yet. >> well, we have learned they haven't been able to extinguish whether it's an international terrorist or domestic terrorist. >> i know that the pressure cooker was in the magazine that was the al-qaeda magazine. it does have islamist links but could be used by anothe

. >> pelley: it is interesting to remember that tim mcveigh was found the evening of the explosion in oklahoma city, because evidence was found in the debris. a vin number off the vehicle that he had rented. f.b.i. agents were able to speak to the people who rented the vehicle in kansas. and by the end of the day, they knew who tim mcveigh was. >> reporter: or if you look at the 1993 truck bombing of the world trade centers that killed six and injured 1,000, there you have, you know, within really 72 hours a vin number found on a piece at the bottom of the rubble traced to a rented van in new jersey, and when they went to go find out who rented the van, they said the by was coming back to collect his deposit because he reported it stolen. that led to an entire cell of people that had to be tracked down around the world, including ramsey youseff, whose yunchgle would later go on to plan 9/11 and the destruction of the world trade center. but it underlines your point it's clues are small things, and being good means you'll find one, and being lucky means you may find one faster. >> pell

tim mcveigh had been arrested only very shortly after the bombing in oklahoma city.of course the 9/11 hijackers were all killed. >> and if you think of the washington sniper case, here's a case where the license plate goes out, a truck driver sees them in a rest stop, calls and a swat team very quickly arrives and they did a dynamic entry on that car which means they approached with the element of surprise very quickly, smashed all the windows, pulled the suspects out. the element of surprise was important there because they are obviously armed and dangerous and, of course, when they did that they ended up waking them up. they were both tired, they were both asleep. so when you do an approach like this, you never know what you're going to get. >> pelley: we have been watching all day, been on the air much of the day. watching the police and federal agents and members of the national guard hunting a terrorist suspect in the city of boston. the city of boston has been locked down most of the day. the governor of massachusetts telling people to stay in their homes and l

something like in the bathroom i found that the ammonium nitrate allowable this is the stuff that tim mcveigh used to blow up the more a federal building. that was allowable with safety checks isn't this a reason why we need big government you know like i was at a hearing today with janet napolitano. who was asked this question by senator landreau and the fact is this just this factory wasn't even on their radar and they're basically put on your staff well they're understaffed because the republicans are just going over the over there i bet you could find somebody they do oversee to have issues doesn't work with me but they got the there are so few inspectors in the state of texas that it's an average of once every sixty seven years these factor having said that it leaves this to the material itself from want to understand is the material itself is relatively safe for transportation and things like that the problem is that when it becomes under pressure. and so that was a key neil's argument basically if i can if i can paraphrase that correct me if i'm wrong was. you know the government misse

description resembles a man who had just stayed there day before, a guest registered under the name tim mcveighon remains why would he use his real name? it's turning out mcveigh has left clues everywhere. >> you have to realize that inside that marquee was a big thick brown envelope with all kinds of anti-government literature espousing his viewpoints. and he's wearing a t-shirt that has a quote from john wilkes booth when he shot lincoln, "sic semper tyrannis." tyrants forever. on the back there's a tree with the words of thomas jefferson that "the tree of liberty must be watered from time to time with the blood of tyrants and patriots." >> i left the trail on purpose. just a few pieces in my car, i was wearing it on my back. even if i wouldn't have been apprehended, i still would have gained the benefit of being identified. i already made sure that was in place. it was a no lose situation. >> by the time federal agents identify mcveigh just two days after the bombing, he is being arraigned and about to be released from the noble county jail. just an hour or so from being set free, agents con

nine hundred eighty five and they were sitting on enough of this money and nitrate which is what tim mcveigh used in his bomb to blow up west texas which is what happened and although they had in two thousand and six they've been cited for not having good risk management paid a fine but nobody had inspected them. i would submit that this is a good example of why we need. and check out this video. so adam in your libertarian world the way that you solve these problems is these people die this thing blows up and everybody else goes oh that's terrible this is there's actually an example of why big government wouldn't have saved these people there was already regulations on the books but there was no exaggeration the government wasn't big enough which is you know they were quite big and they could've gone down any time they wanted to and taken a look oh no there are the days but there's two and suppose you say whatever pages they were paid off they didn't call it received they're fine they've received their fine and they didn't go down there and check it out for there are and that they say there

we do know is that this this particular fertilizer factory had stored on site multiples of what tim mcveigh used to blow up the federal building and they were not. authorized i don't know i don't know i mean again what we're talking us of that only talks about life and limb and property damage i don't problem bad that be checked out how much i eat how much over rishi regulations that's what i get concerned about but stuff about you know but the flip side of that i mean here's the to world peace the libertarian world views when something blows up everybody in the industry goes oh this is terrible we've got to fix it we'll fix and the more small d d m a crowd or big d. democratic for that liberal view yes says says if we know that this may blow up in the company running it is going to have an incentive to do it dangerously because you know they don't actually live there the owner doesn't actually live there and and they want to make a profit then we'd better sense of inspectors in periodically to check it out and make an accent but everything could be dangerous isn't it isn't everything we do

would it would it be reasonable to say that i mean i'm thinking of tim mcveigh and that was on the second anniversary of david koresh and waco and i grew up in michigan and you know i've known some guys who were in the mission michigan militia i don't know anybody who's ever committed a crime but these guys were serious about having a lot of guns and i mean twenty years ago they're still around what. if what's the ratio of white christians to dark skinned muslims who have committed crimes against the united states and does the f.b.i. as attention to the potential to mcveigh's in the world match that ratio when there attend attention to the potential. fall of the times square bomber so there's far more attention paid to islamic terrorism then there is to domestic terrorism and just the result of that is kind of an exaggerated effect that there are so many more court cases involving islamic terrorism than there are involving say white supremacist groups or right wing groups but the results but the reason for that is that the f.b.i. is using informants in dramatic ways to troll muslim commun

. >> tim mcveigh was tried in the federal court system and now he's dead. >> no need for mutilating the language. >> i am okay with trying in the federal court. >> there are some american terrorists who are not enemy combatants. mcveigh is one of them. you have to make a decision. tsarnaev and the chechen radical jihadist connection justifies naming him an enemy combatant now. he has the right to challenge that. it is not unfed erred executive branch discretion. i got him this time finally. >> always happy to get other people's ambassadors. >> america's sweetheart strikes again. >> he is truly our legally bond. -- blonde. >> this is one of the reasons i am america's sweetheart. >> you walk the line. >> keep him in the basement. >> jaime you said of these people, the segment of the population is true. if you look at the free dzhokhar hash tag it is a lot of people making fun of the hash tag. >> it makes you believe in america. >> and you bleed a little less than twitter. >> the thing amanda palmer did was raise money on kick starter to make an album and go on tour and then went on tour a

remember, tim mcveigh, who was convicted of blowing up the federal building in oklahoma city was actuallyrosecuted in denver. i would think this defendant would have to be prosecuted somewhere else. but there's no basis here whatsoever to believe or to suggest that we should suspend the constitution. the constitution doesn't have a provision for its suspension. in fact, when presidents have done this, when f.d.r. did it, when lincoln did it during the civil war, and the supreme court reviewed their suspension of the constitution, it always shot them down. it always said, the constitution exists for good times and bad, for monsters and for innocents, for the governed and for those doing the governing, and there's no provision to suspend it, period. >> mike: well, and i think that's the point at which so many of us again uncomfortably come, yeah, this guy is a monster, we all want him to pay the ultimate price for what he did in boston, but if the justice system does not work for the worst, for the most hideous among us, then there may come that day, judge, when it doesn't work for the best

. >> i was there when the oklahoma bombing happened and i don't think tim mcveigh would have thought,ow in the aftermath of all this, we're better people. i think it is a fact. >> i think so. a lot of people went away from the bombing when it happened. we started to make sure everybody was okay. people like bruce ran toward them so people were okay. it brings everybody together. >> shep: memories of yesterday that will no doubt last a lifetime. we expect many more stories that went to a marathon what felt like a war zone. first reports from boston, there may have been one image to show the nation how horrible it really was. a gravely injured man in a wheelchair, they ran as live during studio "b" and came across our on monitors in the studio. there was an audible gasp in the room. workers looked down at the floor in disbelief. both his legs were gone. many wondered if he survived. his story can be told. his name is jeff and he was at the race to watch his girlfriend. doctors had to amputate what was left of his legs. he is currently in stable condition. the doctors said today many of

there is a vengeance in the air they want this guy to get what tim mcveigh got. >> and that you understand that this mearp pay give up information freely or he may not. there may have to be some kind of bargain reach it may be sufficient for the victims and the families of the victims that they do get information, they do get answers that helps them some people unhappy. i'm not suggesting they should go that way. >> bill: last question. the fbi, you just heard brit hume and i debate the fbi. this guy going over to russia and coming back to boston. did that give you pause? do you think there might be something wrong? >> i think it's worth exploring. i agree with chairman mccaul. i think companies the role of congress to ask questions. we do have the example of what happened to hasan and you had the fbi coming out initially saying, you know, we did everything right. i think under the circumstances it's necessary. we need to find out whether or not the fbi did its job based on what's been disclosed publicly i would say that they did. again, i don't know what i don't know. >> bill: i don't kno

scenario when they were discussing hezbollah on the morning of oklahoma city only to find out it was tim mcveighs a discipline saying keep an open mind so we don't miss anything. >> rose: mike barnicle this is your beloved city. talk to me about this yesterday, today and your thoughts and the people you have talked to. >> well, charlie, first of all, the day itself patriots day is a holiday in massachusetts. everybody in america is working. nobody in massachusetts is working. it's the day of marathon. it's the day of an early red sox game. starting at 11:00. the crowd spills out at 2:00, 2:30. many of the 35,000 at the ball game go done through kenmore square and to boylston street. it's a small town. you can walk the town it's like living in the palm of your hand. because of communal feeling there is in boston it's a violation. it's as if someone came into your living room and did something violent as the violent acts were committed yesterday at the marathon. there is today, i think kevin will bare this out with me, kevin cullen, there's the initial shock that gave way out to anna nicole smith

if tim mcveigh hadn't been stopped, he would have gotten away. >> thank you for being with us.y with us. >> i will. >> there is a lot to talk about. >>> coming up, we could have a vote in the senate this week on gun control legislation. there is other news in the world. that measure could face another potential roadblock. we're going to have the details. >>> we'll also, of course, have the very latest on the deadly bombings at monday's boston marathon. we're live at the scene. stay with us. >>> i want to go back to brooke baldwin in new york for the other stories. you were just here over the weekend. we were just talking about what a special event patriots day is in boston and the boston marathon. what a shame that such a wonderful day like that was just ruined. >> i was in the boston public library as the stairs were prepared and all the excitement was in the air. it is absolutely tragic. john berman, we'll come back to you momentarily. i want to get you some news on north korea. the leaders are turning up the rhetoric. they are now saying they won't give any warning at all be

and i'm happy that the entire time that i represented tim mcveigh, not one time did anyone ever then me in any form or fashion or my family. and it's testament to our belief in your system, that i didn't get threatened, that doesn't mean it won't happen, it has happened in other cases. but it's a testament that we all understand that the prosecutor and the defense has a job to dw and we didn't buy the problems that we're litigating. >> do you think there could be a chilling effect on prosecutors i mean people who take on these cases and they're representing some pretty rough guys and these people are gunned down? >> well, it's going to have an immediate impact, i know in harris county, our brand-new d.a. and his family was given 24-hour security yesterday by the harris county sheriff's department to ensure his safety and i think it's going to cause everyone in the short-term here to be a little bit more vigilant and to look around a little bit more and to pay attention on what's going on around you. but it's not going to stop the justice system from moving forward both from a prosecu

. >> tim mcveigh was driving with a bad license plate on the open roads of oklahoma, on the same day that he detonated that bomb right before 9:00 o'clock in the morning. were you set back in your investigation because of leaks that went out at a time that was not appropriate? >> very much so, particularly after the initial indictment of mcveigh when there were critical negotiations with michael fortier with regard to he and his wife, who were intimately involved in some of the conspiracy with very specific knowledge and certain leaks were devonly damaging -- definitely damaging as far as any negotiations with those other subjects. >> danny, thank you. danny defenbaugh, live with us today, drawing on his experience from 1995, april of that year. thank you. i want to go to mike tobin. he has breaking news. i believe you're at the courthouse in downtown boston. >> there is something here. what we're seeing is the d.hs police cam out with a great sense of urgency and pushed all of the crowd off to the other side of the street, at the same time hustling the employees out of the courthous

don't forget, back in the oklahoma city bombing kay tim mcveigh originally went to waco to protest the brady bill. so these are very tough issues on all sides. >> and we don't know what we're dealing with yet. >> no, not yet. >> david, thank you kelly, you have a busy day up there. thank you for taking time. >> sure. >>> and chris jansing is in boston on top of the latest developments there. chris, it appears now today you're closer to the bombing site? >> we've hearing all along that police wanted things to get back to normally, a weird word to use when you've had a tragedy. as quickly as possible. this is an area of commerce. you can see the big white medical tent that was essentially used as a trauma center in the aftermath. this is by far the closest we have gotten to that crime scene. we also learned today at times there's been as many as 100 investigators working this crime scene. they will continue to shrink it. they believe they definitely are making progress, both in findings parts of the bomb being analyzed, looking at all those individual photographs, and pieces of video, lo

we look at tim mcveigh and terri nichols, born and bred in america who had a beef with america and gotnd put it it together. one of the most devastating, if not the most devastating in this country. had nothing to do with where they were from. >> thank you all very much. thanks for being here. when we return, from boston to texas where another town tries to recover from a tragedy of their own. aaah! aaaaah! theres a guy on the window! do something, dad! aaaah! aaaah! what is happening? they're rate suckers. their bad driving makes car insurance more expensive for the rest of us. good thing there's snapshot from progressive. snap it in and get a discount based on your good driving. stop paying for rate suckers. try snapshot free at progressive.com. man: how did i get here? dumb luck? or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your family's future? we'll help yo

it's been used in roadside bombs in afghanistan and the oklahoma city bomber tim mcveigh combined ith conventional explosives in his 1995 attack. that bomb contained about two and a quarter tons of the chemical. the plant in west had 270 tons and it is unclear whether federal, state and local guidelines for reporting and handling the material were followed. assistant state fire marshal kelly kistner spoke on monday. >> we are still working on inventorying all of those chemicals. part of that accounting process for all of those materials is this methodical investigation. we have to go through it. >> sreenivasan: at least seven state and federal agencies were responsible for oversight of the plant. among them, the federal occupational safety and health administration, which had not inspected the west plant in 28 years. rhode island will become the tenth state to allow gay marriage. the state senate voted last night to approve a bill to legalize the practice. it had already passed the house. a final procedural vote will come next week, and governor lincoln chafee has said he will sign i

federal building bombing which forever changed oklahoma city and the heartland of america after tim mcveigh set the explosion in the truck in front of the alfred pmurrow building was april 17th. the disaster at waco on april 17th at well. the unthinkable shootings at columbine were on the 20th of april. that was not so many years ago. and now the bo is sten marathon -- the boston marathon has been hit by someone. there are reports out there as many who have trolled the internet of a possible suspect in custody and of many more people dead and many more people injured and many more locations. these will come together in time. for now we know at least two people will not go home tonight. dozens are injured with at least nine according to our own reporting in critical. and during the 3 p.m. hour of the news we reported from a doctor inside massachusetts general hospital, a world renowned destination was there were 10 people with decapitations of one kind or another. i tell you this to give you an explanation of the gravity of this day. major cities across the united states first being new york

tim think mcveigh was mirandized. there isn't a problem here, which is why i'm surprised that senator graham, senator mccain and others would be looking to create a political issue in a way that looks to be, maybe they may not be intending this, looks to be grandstanding. >> what they say, julian, i heard senator graham earlier, they said the public safety issue is limited in time. maybe you only have 48 hours after he -- he said they need 30 days. they need a long time to come up with their questioning. clearly we have more to discuss. that's important. we'll hold you over and pick it up on the other side. >> all right. [ female announcer ] a classic meatloaf recipe from stouffer's starts with ground beef, onions and peppers baked in a ketchup glaze with savory gravy and mashed russet potatoes. what makes stouffer's meatloaf best of all? that moment you enjoy it at home. stouffer's. made with care, for you or your family. it only matters that it shows up and makes things better. in that spirit, verizon is proud to an

. >> just like terry nichols in oklahoma city and tim mcveigh. >> i think the article three court ischance of not getting the death penalty. if you watch w tony used priceline to book this 4 star hotel. tell 'em why. free breakfast with express deals, you can save big and find a hotel with free breakfast without bidding. don't you just love those little cereal boxes? priceline savings without the bidding. new honey bunches of oats greek yohere we go.ole grain. honey cornflakes and chunks of greek yogurt. i'm tasting both the yogurt and the honey at the same time. i'm like digging this yogurt thing. i feel healthy. new honey bunches of oats greek. only rzr delivers. now's the time to buy during the polaris xp sales event. take your pick of our new limited edition rzrs and get financing as low as 2.99%. save even more with rebates up to $500... or totally customize your new rzr with up to $500 of free polaris accessories. razor sharp performance is waiting for you during the polaris xp sales event. how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us

. >> just like terry nichols in oklahoma city and tim mcveigh. >> i think the article three court is going to give him much more of a chance of not getting the death penalty. if you watch what is happening. >> geraldo: i give him straight murder death penalty. >> hold on, they are already -- ♪ the trucks are going farther. the 2013 ram 1500 with best-in-class fuel economy. engineered to move heaven and earth. guts. glory. ram. the new ram 1500. motor trend's 2013 truck of the year. this is kate. she likes a man with a little hair on his chest. but definitely not on his back. this is hannah. she likes a guy with a smooth stomach to show off his six-pack. [ ding! ] and this is genesis. she likes men completely hairless and, no, she doesn't think that's weird. i don't. the proglide styler. trim, shave and edge. the one tool you need to get the look she wants. the night is yours. gillette. the best a man can get. ♪ >>> live from america's news headquarters i'm marianne rafferty. some of the people who live near the site of a deadly fertilizer plant explosion in texas is heading home whil

this is the same fertilizer tim mcveigh used to start the oklahoma city bombing.he west fert lieser company filed a report with the bought, indicating it had 270ps tons of that stuff on site. in 2007, congress passed a legislation with anybody with more than a few pounds of ammonium nitrate to file a listing with the department of homeland security saying that. that was last year, put on the public record for comment t fell through the cracks for reasons that remain unclear. suffice it to say the blast here was huge beyond comprehension. 350 homes damaged, more than $100 million in damage we understand from insurance adjusters thus far. the crater itself where the explosion happened, 10 feet deep, 96 feet wide. just a tremendous blast. martha? martha: unbelievable, what a tragedy. doug, thank you very much. bill: from that story we go, martha, to this one. up in flames what caused a massive fire and what firefighters are doing to get this under control. that is breaking news story still happening now. martha: the question is which law enforcement agency knew what

. >> just like terry nichols in oklahoma city and tim mcveigh. >> i think the article three court isgive him much more of a chance of not getting the death penalty. if you watch w [ male announcer ] we build things that work the way you wish they would. like a front-end loader you can detach from your seat? or a mower deck you just drive over and cut through knee-deep grass no problem? yep. we thought the same thing you did. that's why we build them this way. that's how we run. nothing runs like a deere. visit your dealer or johndeere.com/howwerun to see the new signature series and 1 family tractors. [ babies crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need without any surprise fees. ♪ it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. >>> live from america's news headquarters i'm marianne rafferty. the fbi arresting an 18-year-old chicago area man accused of having possible terro

tim mcveigh was a loaner and tamerlan appears to have been a loaner.ference that i see is that the person that we're going to be dealing with in trial, dzhokhar, may be very different than terry nichols, the number two in the oklahoma city case. >> what about -- let's face it, 18 years ago, that was pre-9/11, so would mcveigh have been tried today as an enemy combatant because he had a military background. does that mean anything? >> no. he would definitely not have been tried as an enemy combatant. to be tried as an enemy combatant, you have to be part of a -- or associated with a foreign force. not necessarily a state, but a foreign force like al qaeda. mcveigh definitely was not. he was super charged politically. we don't know whether tamerlan was. but it seems like dzhokhar was not, although we don't know for sure. >> okay, but you've heard some gop elected officials, they would like to see tsarnaev tried as one. so your thoughts on that? >> i don't think that that's going to happen. the obama administration has been clear, they're distancing thems

let's ask the man who defended the oklahoma city bomber tim tim bomb tim timothy mcveigh?u prepare defections rently? >> there are certain aspect ups of the federal law applicable to terrorist type crimes that aren't applicable to routine felonies is such as bank robbery or murder. >> judge jeanine: and do you worry about the danger zone for you or your family? >> i was concerned about that while representing mr. mcveigh but to be frank with you the judge was gracious and concerned about our security and provide the appropriate security for us. and so we didn't worry about it. >> judge jeanine: and what do you think the defense will be in a case like this, where you have got a victim who says he saw the brother laid down the duffle bag. forensic evidence and video images. basically an admission to the guy whose car they carjacked and it goes on and on. i'm sure there is a lot more. how do you defend a case like this? >> well, the defense if the government seeks murder is fairly obvious. it only takes one member of the jury to oppose the death penalty and stand fast and it

but aside from eric rudolf -- >> stephanie: and tim mcveigh. >> caller: they are christians but -- >>ller: you have got to read about what has been going on in the islamic world. >> stephanie: i'm not saying that part of what you are saying is not true but i think what we're saying is we had this muslim commentator, lawyer comedian friend of mine dean obediallah, and he was saying as a muslim he looks at this as the people that misuse islam like this, like some christians misuse the bible to commit violence, he was saying it wasmor political not religious. >> caller: well, the whole islamic issue is the fact that since the death of the ottoman empire, there have been massive numbers of muslims who have not been able to accept that demarcation between government and religion. they want to -- >> not all -- not all countries have a demarcation between government and religion. >> caller: that is true. but that's the problem. they have huge populations that want to restore that. >> stephanie: okay. >> caller: they want to restore that -- the unity of government and religion. >> right. >> s

. >> that kind of terrorism can occur whether it's international or domestic, tim mcveigh, one or two cohorts and not much else. we do think of things as big conspiracies, it sometimes doesn't happen. >> counterterrorism efforts are always developing. evolution of strategy. assuming this went down as we now believe it did, with two brothers acting alone or in concert with someone else. what adjustments will the law enforcement, counterterrorism community need to make? >> one thing for the american public to suspect, we are a big society with lots of mobility and lots of people coming in and out. there is going to be some level of risk for that, we saw that op monday. but we still had the boston marathon. it begins with our expectations of what kind of safety we have. there is going to be -- we don't know the facts about them. i will reserve judgment. hemming on where they are from, how they got here, what sort of visas, that will be examined and whether there is intel stream. i believe ed davis when he says there was no hint of this before. that is the thing with localized terrorists

tim mcveigh born a u.s.tered 168, wounded over 800 in oklahoma city. >> will they stop at nothing? >> stephanie: perhaps we should leave nationality and ethnicity out of it, okay? okay? >> then the sikhs get attacked because some nimrod think they're arabic and b muslim, neither which is true and even if it were, they're not terrorists. >> stephanie: yeah. can't brain today. what's that facebook thing? >> i can't brain today. >> i can't remember. >> stephanie: all right so obviously this brings up a lot of legal questions. they didn't give a miranda warning so the aclu is shouting about that. and of course, well-known southern bell lindsey graham, why isn't he being treated as an enemy combatant? that one to me -- >> what about benghazi? >> shut up. >> stephanie: i'll always have benghazi. it is my terror. no. >> i would never go thirsty again. i'll have another mint julep thank you. >> stephanie: the legal expert i heard this weekend said this is a nonstarter to treat him as enemy combatants. did he a crime